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HurricaneMkII (Read 311,727 times)
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Reply #100 - Dec 8th, 2013 at 4:29pm
 
methods to increase elevator effectiveness
1.  land with an aft cg
2.  place vortex generators ahead of the elevator hinge line
3.  change the tail setting angle to increase the angle of attack in the landing configuration, and thus the circulation around the horiz. tail.  NB:  This will affect the normal straight and level trim and the aerobatic manoeuvre margins.
4.  maintain the AR at 3 and increase the tail volume
(http://adg.stanford.edu/aa241/stability/taildesign.html)
(http://www.aalmps.com/tv.htm)
(http://www.djaerotech.com/dj_askjd/dj_questions/tail_coef.html)


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« Last Edit: Dec 8th, 2013 at 4:34pm by waverider »  

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Reply #101 - Dec 8th, 2013 at 7:49pm
 
OK, thought you meant AR had to BE 6... the Stanford paper seems to think 4.5 - 5 is ideal, so could I increase span a bit and leave the chord  ???

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Reply #102 - Dec 12th, 2013 at 3:21pm
 
If you increase the AR then it may help but it will affect trim for cruise straight and level due to the change in download on the tail increasing the chord of the elevator (reducing the AR) and increasing the semi span to maintain AR 3 is probably one way.  The simplest of increasing the AR or maintaining AR3 with increased chord.  Again I say landing with aft cg may solve your issues as long as you are calm on the sticks..

bear in mind that the spit and to a lesser extent the hurri were very pitch sensitive animals at full scale.  Surprisingly their roll rates were quite average.  Pilots had difficulty with the pitch sensitivity.

Do  you find that with a scale Hurri?

This does imply the distance from the cg to the tail AC was made shorter by Camm and Mitchell such that the pitch sensitivity helped the pilot achieve a better roll rate by pulling and rolling simultaneously.

ME 109 experten trimmed the a/c nose up and flew with pressure on the stick.  This was to improve the a/c response in roll when evading a bounce.

I have landed the twin engine DH Dove with a full complement of Pax and that beast ran out of trim during the last part of the approach with dunlops dangling and going to land flap.  So this was an a/c where you landed with disconcerting back stick pressure prior to flare.

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« Last Edit: Dec 12th, 2013 at 3:26pm by waverider »  

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Reply #103 - Dec 12th, 2013 at 10:55pm
 
Well, following some threads elsewhere.....stock size tail works as long as you have at least 1" up elevator on landing, and you're balanced at 4.5". Real Hurri required full back stick when flaps lowered - FULL BACK - in your gut, bend the stick, no flare, nada
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Reply #104 - Dec 13th, 2013 at 10:53am
 
This is interesting
You may have found it
http://vaillyaviation.com/images/Hurricane%20landing%20technique.pdf

I have my stability and control reference books packed in boxes somewhere.  If I can locate them I will do some calls
I need to know the model scale %

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Reply #105 - Dec 13th, 2013 at 2:15pm
 
have that write up from Roy, thanks.  Keeping the weight down is the biggest challenge I think, besides getting ti built that is  Margaree Night

The plane is 1/5 +- scale

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« Last Edit: Dec 13th, 2013 at 2:16pm by Fingers »  

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Reply #106 - Dec 13th, 2013 at 9:35pm
 
impressions from Chris Erdos
A normal approach starts with a fighter-style overhead break. I always look inside for a moment to ensure that I work the silly H-shaped lever in the right direction: inboard for undercarriage, outboard for flaps. Undercarriage and flap extension are both just slow enough to always raise a pucker of concern. Expect a BIG pitch trim change with flap extension, and it’s normal to run out of aft elevator trim on approach. Elevator effectiveness is poor in the 3-point attitude. Leave a trickle of power through the flare or it will drop out from under you. The landing is almost - pardon the pun – a bit of a let-down. It’s easy. The Hurricane’s undercarriage is wide and soft, and the directional stability and response allow adequate tracking through the roll-out. Compared to the Spitfire, there’s even enough download on the tail to allow some use of brakes.
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Reply #107 - Dec 14th, 2013 at 8:22pm
 
Sandy, you would probably enjoy this video shot at the hamilton airshow this past summer I believe.  Five merlin equipped planes, the lanc, a mossie, two hurricanes and a mustang in a fantastic formation flight.  TEN merlins in the air at the same time.

There is one shot you would be interested in where one of the hurrcanes taxiis out for takeoff and you can really see the smaller tail feathers on the bird.

be warned however this is a 45 minute video and suggest you watch it when you have the time to enjoy it.  It is worth watching!

GOPRO photography at it's best!

www.youtube.com/embed/ceuU1UQuwVU?feature=player_detailpage

a couple of screen grabs from the video.
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« Last Edit: Dec 14th, 2013 at 8:25pm by al »  

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Reply #108 - Dec 14th, 2013 at 10:10pm
 
small tail feathers, but it's a freaking brick truck compared with the Spit LOLOL

That's a super vodeo tho....I'd love to have a ride in that Mossie, perhaps more than the Lanc..
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« Last Edit: Dec 29th, 2013 at 4:52pm by Fingers »  

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Reply #109 - Dec 29th, 2013 at 4:54pm
 
Now it's way too bad this dash board has all those red numbers scattered all over it  Angry...could almost make it work otherwise...

Can use it as a template tho to make a dash..
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Reply #110 - Dec 29th, 2013 at 4:59pm
 
was there, by any chance, a possibility that British pilots in Africa wore the blues? (Mike P where are you?). I can get this figure (thanks Cool) but the uniform is wrong - every thing I see has them wearing pretty scruffy khaki's...

http://www.warbirdpilots.com/WWII_British_RAF_RC_Pilot_Figure_p/british-raf-pilo...

Of course the Mae West would be superfluously redundant I think..
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« Last Edit: Dec 29th, 2013 at 5:00pm by Fingers »  

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Reply #111 - Dec 29th, 2013 at 6:38pm
 
Hmmm.  Let me check on that.

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Reply #112 - Dec 29th, 2013 at 6:38pm
 
Only the high altitude reconnaissance would have worn warm clothing.

The woolen blues no.2s , I think, would have been worn at some formal event in Alexandra etc.

Shirt sleeves at low level and jacket up to 15000

Not much fighting went on at altitude
The order of the day was the luff berry defencive circle which was suicidal against the 109s which would dive in and out and pick them off one by one

The hurries later had the 4 20mm Hispano cannons which were heavy or the tank busting 40mm - I think

I have rad much about the desert warfare and all the pics were black and white
But I never saw blues

If you were over the med then you wore a Mae West

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Reply #113 - Dec 29th, 2013 at 6:43pm
 
We'll call me a
Liar
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Reply #114 - Dec 29th, 2013 at 7:17pm
 
Here you go. No more red numbers....

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« Last Edit: Dec 29th, 2013 at 7:17pm by MkIX »  

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Reply #115 - Dec 29th, 2013 at 7:32pm
 
Seems to me that during WWII, RAF pilots stationed in the Mediterranean and the desert flew in sand coloured shirts and shorts.  I've looked through some of my books and found evidence of both sand and blue uniforms....so go figure???



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Reply #116 - Dec 29th, 2013 at 8:32pm
 
yup, sand is what I've been able to find, but BBI is the only one who made a Desert Dressed British pilot and i haven't been able to find on of those......

Mike, if you can just do that with the photo direct from the Haynes Hurricane Manual we'll have it made....  Cheesy
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Reply #117 - Dec 29th, 2013 at 10:13pm
 
Yup.  Scan it and send it to me.  Turn the resolution way up.

I kinda figured the pic came from Haynes.  I have the Spitfire version and it has the same sort of pic ....except its a Spitfire instrument panel.
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« Last Edit: Dec 29th, 2013 at 10:15pm by MkIX »  

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Reply #118 - Dec 29th, 2013 at 11:00pm
 
So more pics
In the third they are wearing partly blues! AND Mae Wests
Seems like it was a min true of garb
Depending on individual taste, time of year and mission
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« Last Edit: Dec 29th, 2013 at 11:10pm by waverider »  

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Reply #119 - Dec 30th, 2013 at 6:42am
 
that last pic must be getting ready for higher altitude stuff....jump suits AND fleece lined leather jacket...

khaki shorts and #2 jackets, khaki shorts, khaki longs, black Oxfords, Wellies ...whatta bunch. did they never hear of "uniforms"  Wink
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« Last Edit: Dec 30th, 2013 at 6:43am by Fingers »  

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