Welcome to our Forum, Guest.
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the Help/FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions. You may have to Login or Register, before you can post: click the register link below to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.


Welcome to the Avon RC Flyer's Forum.


Random Quote: Be nice to your kids. They will be choosing your nursing home.

Gallery Home Page
 
NEWS:
See our new field weather station!
  Home Weather Network Avon Field Weather Field Wind Speed Field Orientation Gallery Home Gallery Pictures MembersLoginRegisterAwardsQuizzesGuestbookContactHelp  
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Gas vs Glow (Read 13,134 times)
 
Davy Crockett
Aerobatic Pilot
Nextstump Killer
Your a StarYour a StarYour a StarYour a Star
Offline


Yes I still fly...

LastOn: May 13th, 2015
Join: Dec 9th, 2011

Posts: 304
Reputation: 0

Halifax, NS
Gender: male
Zodiac sign: Sagittarius
Awards: 1
Avon RC flyers Member

Mood:

Show the link to this post Gas vs Glow
Feb 24th, 2012 at 10:28pm
 
Hey guys, as you all know I'm a n00b and am full of questions... Does anyone know of a glow vs gas conversion table? I'm trying to figure out what size gas engine a .60-.90 kit would take...
Back to top
  

Oveur:  You ever been in a cockpit before?
Jimmy: No sir, I've never been up in a plane before.
Oveur:  You ever seen a grown man naked?
davidprimehalifax http://facebook.com/dscsayers  
IP Logged
 
JackDD
Club Member
Your a StarYour a StarYour a StarYour a Star
Offline


Forum User

LastOn: Today
Join: Apr 25th, 2010

Posts: 541
Reputation: 0

Gender: male
Awards: 2
Post 2Yr AwardAvon RC flyers Member

Mood:

Show the link to this post Re: Gas vs Glow
Reply #1 - Feb 25th, 2012 at 7:31am
 
Davey,
I had a 20cc Zenoah in a .60 P47 and that engine just FIT under the cowl. It was plenty of engine for the kit size.
the plane eventually dis-integrated in the Air, with a spectacular crash, due to structural failure..(Vibration) Sad

Lessons:
1. Make sure the Engine Desired will fit in Cowl...
2. Put some kind of engine mounts, that dampen vibrations.
3. Do not cut through balsa on Elevator of Rudder when assemble, Lest you weaken them. Roll Eyes
4. Make sure spectacular crash does not happen when all the club are watching.. Shocked

Jack Wink
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
waverider
Aerobatic Pilot
The Great White Flounder
Your a StarYour a StarYour a StarYour a Star
Offline


Frozen Solid

LastOn: Aug 7th, 2020
Join: Nov 8th, 2010

Posts: 499
Reputation: 0

Edmonton
Gender: male
Zodiac sign: Gemini
Awards: 1
Post 2Yr Award

Mood:

Show the link to this post Re: Gas vs Glow
Reply #2 - Feb 25th, 2012 at 10:09am
 
info from the web:-


  •  
I mainly fly gassers although I have had tonnes of glow engines before. Initially, gas engines were very heavy, hence substituting them with a glow engine was not suitable unless the planes were designed for 50cc and above.

Anyway, today, zenoah has quite a good line up and the zenoah 20cc petrol replaces any .91-1.30 size glow engine. Its weight is lighter than an OS120 surpass. The engine is cheap to run, in-expensive(almost the same cost as an OS91 2 stroke), gives you about 7800RPM on a 15-5 and a 16-8.

Zenoah 20cc ~ OS/TT/ASP etc .91/1.20
Zenoah 26cc/RCS 26cc/RCGF 26cc etc ~ OS 1.60FX
Zen 45cc/3W50cc/ZDZ 50cc/or any other 50 cc ~ OSBGX1(35cc)/Moki 2.10 etc. Basically any plane that has a wingspan of 80" can accept a 50cc engine.

There is no glow engine bigger than the OS BGX1(35cc) and the super tigre 42cc glow engine. However, using such big glow engines increases the cost of fuel tremendously as their consumption is extremely high. For example if you use a 420cc tank, the OS BGX1 will give you about 8-10 minutes max, but a 50cc petrol engine will give you 18-25 minutes depending on if the engine has been leaned out or not.


  •  
I beg to differ with the comparison made, from which it appears to show that a 20 cc gas engine is equivalent to a 1.20 size (roughly 20 cc ) size glow. However a 20 cc may be substituted for 90 size ( 14.74 cc) glow

The glow would be able to deliver more power for the same displacement on same prop etc, this is where BTU, air volume required to burn a unit of fuel, calorific value, energey density etc of different fuels come in. Yes however I do agree that fuel consumption would be much higer in a glow than a gas.

Again replacing same size glow with same size gas may work if you are looking for sedate scale (not even scale warbird capability) type of flying but then this equation takes on different dimesion if you want any decent aerobatics capability.

  •  
There are various threads on this topic at RC Gropups and RC Universe. 


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8673009/anchors_8673009/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm...

  •  
DLE 20 out pulling the saito 125 glow FS
prop and weight are factors

  •  
converted all of my 140-180 glow 2 strokes to the SAP 30cc (180) gassie 2 stroke on pipe just about 1 year ago

  •  
a 1.20 four-stroke would be about 20cc gas. A 1.4 four-stroke would be about 26cc. A 1.6 four-stroke maybe a 30cc.

  •  
But consider the aircraft weight, too. You can get away with a smaller fuel tank which might equal out the weight increase due to the ignition and battery. Sometime you get lucky ... DLE-20 ends up being about 2 ounces lighter than a Saito 1.50 and produces about the same hp. [again prop comparison...]

You need to go about 10% higher with gasoline as a gasoline engine of the same displacement does not produce as much power as a nitro/alcohol eng
Back to top
« Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2012 at 10:16am by waverider »  

Brian H
"I see no ships"
 
IP Logged
 
waverider
Aerobatic Pilot
The Great White Flounder
Your a StarYour a StarYour a StarYour a Star
Offline


Frozen Solid

LastOn: Aug 7th, 2020
Join: Nov 8th, 2010

Posts: 499
Reputation: 0

Edmonton
Gender: male
Zodiac sign: Gemini
Awards: 1
Post 2Yr Award

Mood:

Show the link to this post Re: Gas vs Glow FS
Reply #3 - Feb 25th, 2012 at 3:05pm
 
Gasser comparison with FS Nitro
Nota Bene
This is a work in progress.  I started it today  2012 02 25
It needs to have the thrust numbers and the specific HP
  ... which is HP divided by weight
It is worth the effort to try to get it right, since there is bugger all about this [in detail] on the web

There is an error the RCG20 is really a DLE20
Back to top
« Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2012 at 7:05pm by waverider »  

Brian H
"I see no ships"
 
IP Logged
 
Glen
Club Member
Your a StarYour a StarYour a StarYour a Star
Offline


Forum User

LastOn: Yesterday
Join: Aug 5th, 2011

Posts: 441
Reputation: 2

Sackville
Gender: male
Zodiac sign: Pisces
Awards: 2
Combat Scale Gas/Glow AwardAvon RC flyers Member

Mood:

Show the link to this post Re: Gas vs Glow
Reply #4 - Feb 25th, 2012 at 6:02pm
 
Dave
The guy's have given you good info, I'd like to add that it never hurts to search the specific aircraft on the rc forum's to see what other's have put in it and their results. It also can help you with fitting issues and other potential problems.
There's lots of smaller gas power plants out there now including several in the 15-17-20cc range that are all meant to fit in 60-120 size airframes. I have a dle20 at home here right now that I can't wait to put into a plane (hanger 9 Hellcat or Thunder tiger bearcat). I'd be happy to show it to you if you think it's something you'd consider for your project.
P.S. I went with this engine because it is one of the most compact one's you can get, and it even has beam mounts so you can retrofit it where you had a glow engine.
Hope this helps.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Davy Crockett
Aerobatic Pilot
Nextstump Killer
Your a StarYour a StarYour a StarYour a Star
Offline


Yes I still fly...

LastOn: May 13th, 2015
Join: Dec 9th, 2011

Posts: 304
Reputation: 0

Halifax, NS
Gender: male
Zodiac sign: Sagittarius
Awards: 1
Avon RC flyers Member

Mood:

Show the link to this post Re: Gas vs Glow
Reply #5 - Feb 26th, 2012 at 9:05am
 
Thanks Everyone for the help. Glen, the DLE20 is what I was thinking. It seems like it's a popular choice for the p-40 kit I have, and think that's probably what I'll end up doing.
Back to top
  

Oveur:  You ever been in a cockpit before?
Jimmy: No sir, I've never been up in a plane before.
Oveur:  You ever seen a grown man naked?
davidprimehalifax http://facebook.com/dscsayers  
IP Logged
 
Glen
Club Member
Your a StarYour a StarYour a StarYour a Star
Offline


Forum User

LastOn: Yesterday
Join: Aug 5th, 2011

Posts: 441
Reputation: 2

Sackville
Gender: male
Zodiac sign: Pisces
Awards: 2
Combat Scale Gas/Glow AwardAvon RC flyers Member

Mood:

Show the link to this post Re: Gas vs Glow
Reply #6 - Feb 26th, 2012 at 9:27am
 
Dave
Just let me know and you can borrow it and lay it over your plans, or check it against your firewall. It'll still be in the box until I need it, so you can have it whenever you need it.
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Ramzz
3D Pilot
Faster Than A Speeding Lugi!!!
Your a StarYour a StarYour a Star
Offline


Forum User

LastOn: May 4th, 2021
Join: Sep 5th, 2011

Posts: 234
Reputation: 1

Petitcodiac, NB
Gender: male
Zodiac sign: Taurus
Awards: 1
Jet Pilot Award

Mood:

Show the link to this post Re: Gas vs Glow
Reply #7 - Feb 26th, 2012 at 8:14pm
 
The DL 20 is a powerhouse.  One of the fellows at my field is using it in a 60 size Aeroworks Extra 300 and it is ballistic.  I do not know the all up weight but the airframe seems to handle it well but you can tell by watching it land that it is a bit heavier than it intended to be. 

Saito has  an .82 4 stroke gasoline engine that may work...not nearly as powerful as the DL though. http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/fg-14b-82b-4-stroke-gas-engine-as-SAIEG14B

BME makes a .90 2 stroke gasoline aswell - http://www.bmeengine.com/engines.htm
Back to top
  
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Facebook Twitter Google Digg del.icio.us reddit Linked in MySpace StumbleUpon Yahoo
Send Topic Print

Link to This Topic