OK guys, here we go, slowly, deathly slowly, snore  ::)

Lots of wood to cut out, lots of room to do stuff like cockpit, Vailly has detailed instructions on scale hinging, so I think (hope) it'll be fun....

Let the ragging begin  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

---

I took the plans (3 sheets roughly 4x10 each)  to Chris's Kwik Kopy in Burnside. I didn't want to cut up all 3 sheets to get templates of the 50 odd pieces I need to cut out, so his shop made a copy of the drawings.  Super job and very well priced.  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

I'm going to double everything up - need a former #6, so I'll cut 2 of them; need 2 rib #15's so I'll make 4. Once I'm done I'll have 2 kits...  ;)

I understand there's a learning curve for scroll saws so I bought a package of 36 blades  :P Should get me through the fuse formers at least...

Let me be the First, to Congratulate (Rag) you on this fine choice of kit...(where's the pics?)
The 2 pages of Kit specs, are impressive... ::) certainly takes me back to the old Technical Drawing workshop at Cosford, where everything was hand drawn then Blue copied.. :(

JackDD wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 11:10am:

Let me be the First, to Congratulate (Rag) you on this fine choice of kit...(where's the pics?) The 2 pages of Kit specs, are impressive... ::) certainly takes me back to the old Technical Drawing workshop at Cosford, where everything was hand drawn then Blue copied.. :(

pics will be posted as they occur!!! Still in the accumulate stuff stage..

Yeh, I did that hand draw then print on blue... back in my draftsman days..

Very cool Sandy,

Looking forward to seeing it come together...

Brian

Brian wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 7:47pm:

Very cool Sandy, Looking forward to seeing it come together... Brian

I don't know if I'll live that long! ;D ;D

30 to 39 oz/sq ft of wing loading.  It should turn out just fine.   

Post lots of pictures  :)

Yak Man wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 10:00pm:

Brian wrote on Jan 9th, 2013 at 7:47pm: Very cool Sandy, Looking forward to seeing it come together... Brian I don't know if I'll live that long! ;D ;D

sure you will, you're still a youngish old man...

OMG Sierra retracts for this thing are $550.00  :o. Right some nice thingys, and Robart don't list a compatible set....... :'(

I suppose fixed gear would look poopy..

Ouch!

Sorry Finger's you're right, you need to but the sierra's, because they have the right amount of "twist" in them to drop in the stock locations and be lined up correctly when in the up and down positions.

If you ask real nice I'll let you look at mine, maybe you could fabricate/ modify a set of robart or others to work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIkSbL83Rx4

Now how do I make mine sound like that ??????

darn, kinda tough to make a single cylinder sound like 12 of 'em.... :'(

OK Cool - put your mill to work and design and make us some scale Merlins.... shouldn't be too hard, you being a car nut and machinist extraordinaire.....

Done and done !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0KtL2hotCY

or : http://www.conleyprecision.com/

well, not a 12 - only an 8, and only turns 4800

but -  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

and I read I need a bit of nose weight......  [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

Glen, are you going to get 1? ::)

I remember reading about a guy that had designed something similar in Model Airplane News.

I don't think this is the guy because I thought he was Canadian but it's another website

http://www.artus-motor.com/en/artus-v12-motor/

Oh and Sandy this is a 12.  No excuses you have to buy now   ;D

http://www.artus-motor.com/uploads/pics/artus_o_prop_vo_01.gif

yuppper - had my cheque book out and realized the 3 blade was 30x16....... bit too big for the Valley Hurri... :'(

haha details details  ;D

probly  be some torque roll as well  :D

Slighty off topic but I just noticed the mood drop down.

I am feeling SEXY lol

well, you don't do much for me, but


Whateverrrrr

lol

all right then - to business...... :D

plans call for the firewall being 3/4 plywood  :o.... I asked Vaillencourt about that since the design is from the '80's back when big gassers were kinda rough.. He said that the firewall could be a lot lighter since todays 50's were a lot smoother than the Quadra 50 the plan is designed for, but the plane needs a lot of nose weight anyway..

So, might as well use thick wood which helps absorb what vibration there is... ;) better than couple pounds of lead and stuff..

I rough cut 2 firewalls, then using the engine mount template I screwed them together and used my belt sander to smooth the profile....

Now I'm cutting 1/8" x 1/4" notches (only 52 in the firewall  :-/) - likely be a while  ;D

---

Ohhhhh!!! Someone needs a bandsaw for their Birthday!!!!

Bruce

Ha! don't say I didn't warn you . ;D

Well, here's the first piece (x2). If it weren't for the help of my little buddy there I'm not sure I would have got as much done as I did... ;)
Just for reference, the new fire wall is 8" wide by 10 1/2 long, compared to the 5 x 7 1/2 for the ESM. I put the two cowls in there for comparison - the ESM cowl overlaps the firewall by quite a bit while the Vailly fits flush to the FW.
Some where along the build the cowl gets cut for the exhaust stubs to be installed..

---

hmmmmmm, Sierra retracts have arrived - the 15 deg rotate is a cam built onto the top of the strut, with a groove cut into the inside of the "box". The cam runs in the groove and turns 15 deg as the gear closes.... super, and looks pretty strong (which it will have to be, I Know, I know  ;))

only one former to go  :-/

Fingers wrote on Mar 5^th, 2013 at 10:25am:

hmmmmmm, Sierra retracts have arrived - the 15 deg rotate

Well!!!  Lets see some pictures of the retracts.  And make them good!!  >:( >:(

had to fit this in a break

---

Niice!!  Good Pics.  :)

all right boys and girls....finally, something to post.  :) (try to keep the applause down) Finished the formers last night, so here is a fuselage short kit.
You can see the formers are notched to fit over the crutch, which will be the 2 long sticks laying on the bottom of the pic. They are 56" long and will sit on a jig with uprights at each former. With everything centered, and clamped, hopefully things will go together moderately straight. "Things going together" interprets to mean 1/8 x 1/2 balsa strips will be laid in the notches, front to back.
The 2 panels are wing saddles and are glued to the crutches, running from the firewall to former 8, also fitting in notches in the formers.
Each former slot took at least 3 cuts - one down the center, one down either side, then slide side to clear the slot...since there are something like 356 slots (count 'em Glen to check for sure) :D, that's 356 x .....carry the 7, divide by 2.4 - something over 1000 cuts.  :P
In all this I only broke 1 saw blade  >:(.
The crutch sticks started as a 56" long piece of 1x3 kiln dried pine. Would have been easier if I had a table saw, but eventually wound up with a bunch of 1/4 x 1/2 pine sticks, quite a few dull #11 Xacto blades and a lot of tooth picks.

So material consumption so far is 7 sheets of 1x4 lite ply (1/8); chunk of 3/4 ply, chunk of 3/8 ply, and chunk of 1/2 ply. Of course I made a copy of all this stuff, so I do have a second fuse kit, set aside for future use. And by the way, these results are called a short kit, I guess because we're short the rest of the wood to actually make a fuselage.

Resulting from these efforts, I also have leftover 2'x2' pieces of 3/4 ply, 3/8 ply, 1/2 ply, and a massive pile of scrap 1/8 ply......I will sell that at a very good price.......let's call it a pigmy kit, or dwarf kit... ;D

---

Nice. This working with wood thing is a nice change to the ARF. I think my next sport jet will be a kit...

Danster wrote on Mar 6^th, 2013 at 7:25pm:

Nice. This working with wood thing is a nice change to the ARF. I think my next sport jet will be a kit...

I agree Dan. Pleasant to be working with saw dust in the nose and eyes again, while trying to keep the fingers out of the saw blade..

Now, before I can build, I have to build the jig.. :-[

Nice gear... :) and your parts look great, very good job cutting then out!  Want to do mine? ::)

Yak Man wrote on Mar 7^th, 2013 at 6:51am:

Nice gear... :) and your parts look great, very good job cutting then out!  Want to do mine? ::)

second kit is already there (partially)..... 8-)  since it's been made known that Glennie already has 2 of these beasts, my lawyer is in the process of changing my willie.....

Hey, you can never have too many hurricanes , just ask Winston Churchill . ;D

Glen wrote on Mar 7^th, 2013 at 9:38pm:

Hey, you can never have too many hurricanes , just ask Winston Churchill . ;D

:D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

yeh, but ask Goering

Quote:

Hey, you can never have too many hurricanes

That may be ok for you guys who happen to live inland, but along the coast 1 is more than enough at a time, thank you (Juan, Noel,...) >:(

argus wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 3:43pm:

Quote: Hey, you can never have too many hurricanes That may be ok for you guys who happen to live inland, but along the coast 1 is more than enough at a time, thank you (Juan, Noel,...) >:(

hey!!  Juan came right up my street thank you very much  :D :D :D >:(

But, was he in your house, like he was in mine? :(

mmmmmm, I usually try to give high tide a 100 ft leeway, that's vertical not horizontal  >:( can't trust that damn ocean thingy..

behold the flowing lines of a Hurricane fuselage!!! Wait, something missing  ;) I talked to a few people who felt that some of you have no idea what I meant by building the fuse on a jig - even after I put out the photos of the formers all cut out. With all the ARF's out there some have never seen construction.
Here are all of the formers placed on the crutch pieces, up on the jig. The jig is about 2 inches higher than it has to be - only has to high enough to support the fuse off the table enough to get under it a bit. For some reason the 3rd picture only opens in "image ready" and the psd files I have on my computer won't open at all.
With the formers clamped in place, I'll spend as much time as I have to to get everything lined up so the stringers are straight once i start gluing them in... with the back end covered in fabric there'll be no hiding a wonky stringer... and yes, i am using the laser... ;D
Actually, at this point I find I buggered the jig for the front 6 formers - forgot the inset for the wing saddles to be glued to the crutch and inset in the formers....I'll get those jig parts fixed and be back...  I did say up front it was going to be a long build.. :-/
The 1/2 former is the back of the cockpit, and the former on the right is the dash/front....about 6" in front of that will be a "wing hold down former", then the firewall, but have to back and fix things before putting them on..

---

Looking real good Sandy.

Yes it does look like your coming along.
When it's done you could make a book case for your RC rags
out of the jig! Double good! :D

finally, something glued....put the wing saddles on the crutches - as you can maybe see the saddles is notched, so hopefully the formers 3 - 8 will be forced into alignment by the saddles, making the rest of the fuse straight.....oh I do have silly dreams... :egyptian

---

And, firewall and former 3 now in place ( had to be there first and rest of formers loaded from the back, this done all off the jig )....once the formers were all there, along with the firewall, THEN I could put everything back on the jig.

I think former 10 is a bit too far to the front - would make the stringers not flow right....before I glue anymore I'll have to check that pretty carefully...

Once that is done, THEN the laser comes into play to try and ensure  :violin everything lines up... for example, just sitting there former 4 is bent/warped/twisted  [smiley=angry.gif] but  a few stringers will jam it into place.. :timetobuild

---

Yak Man wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 6:38am:

Yes it does look like your coming along. When it's done you could make a book case for your RC rags out of the jig! Double good! :D

yupper, just sit it on a shelf and pile the MAN's into it - should hold about 2 years worth.. :D

all righty now.... need some help from you arithmetically inclined guys... like engineeeers and such (my math is limited to pie are round and cake are square (unless we're talking about the trajectory of a 170 gm .30 cal slug leaving the barrel at 2400cfm........) naw lets not go there)

This plane is reputed to build quite tail heavy, so part of my project is to keep as much weight off the tail as I can....SO; the plans call for spruce stringers, all 54 of them....

from cg back to tail is                  46"
from cg forward to firewall is            8.5"      - a ratio of  5.411  to 1

I weighed stringers of both spruce and balsa, pivoting them from a 46" spot to a scale and got

spruce stringer on scale                  9.5      gms            0.33509oz           0.02094      lb
balsa stringer on scale                  2      gms            0.07054oz           0.00440      lb
THEN
54 spruce stringers                  1.130976 lb            on the scale                  
54 balsa stringers                          0.238086 lb            on the scale      

So it seems to me I have a ratio of 5.41 to balance this weight at the firewall, which would be...            

spruce stringers need                  1.130976      x 5.411"      6.119711136  lb to balance
balsa stringers need                  0.238086      x 5.411"      1.288283346  lb to balance

So this tells me that using balsa can save almost 5 pounds of nose weight..... am I correct or what am I missing????  :helpMe :Anyone

:huhsign

1.130976 x^-5.411y^10 over x0.238086^-5.411(-3x^-3y^-1)^-2 =5.0341

Looks right to me, but the real math question is  how much strength are you giving up with just balsa stringers?  Maybe a combination of them will be the ticket. 

Just a though

:Thanks

I was thinking several cages of "X'ed" CF rod between some formers would add a lot of torsional strength without much weight... man that 5 or so pounds is sure inviting.... :-?

Sandy, thought about that one myself a while back. Stuck with spruce since it is structural, not just scale dressing.
Anybody want to do the math on what the torsional loading would be on the tail at say 80 mph with full elevator deflection ? 

I played with the numbers and came up with 4.83 pounds saved.  So either we are all wrong or your analysis is generally correct.  That said, I agree with Al; I wouldn't weaken the fuse too much.  I seem to recall reading something about the Me 109F or G where the tail section fell off during high speed maneuvers due to a weak empennage.  The solution in that case was to add two stiffeners to both side of the fuse just forward of the tail; ugly but it seemed to work. (I wish I could remember where I read that???)

In your case perhaps a mixture of balsa and spruce as Al suggested, and possibly some carbon fibre strips along the balsa stringers to address the tension component of the loads.  Torsional and compression loads will require a little more thought. A geodesic structure would probably work just fine....but then your Hurricane would look like a Wellington Bomber...not good!

Just thinking out loud.

How do you edit a post on this forum?  It seems to me that at one time there was an 'edit' button?

MkIX wrote on Apr 16^th, 2013 at 9:30pm:

How do you edit a post on this forum?It seems to me that at one time there was an 'edit' button?

Hi Mike:  If you can not see your modify button, then you need to update your session.  You will see a Tab on top of the forum that states "Update Session".  Just click on it. You may have to enter your password. It happens because your  IP address changed since you were last online and the system wants to make sure it's you.

Bruce

Excellent!  That worked like a treat.

My IP does change every now and then...just to keep me off balance I think.

Thanks, Bruce.

thanks guys..... if I split the spruce and balsa half and half I save 2.4 pounds, and so the ratios go on and on and on.... thinkin'

best idea I've heard is spruce on the top 3 stringers, at #15 either side and then along the bottom for hanger rash. That will pretty well split it up harf and harf, saving 2 pounds and a smiggeon.  :Cheers :piggy [smiley=beer.gif]

Hey Fingers, check this out, guess my email's finally worked.

http://www.dbalsa.com/cockpits/v-hurricane.htm

Glen wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 1:23pm:

Hey Fingers, check this out, guess my email's finally worked. http://www.dbalsa.com/cockpits/v-hurricane.htm

yeh, I have that site bookmarked Glen.....but $225 just for a cockpit  :gimpy  I've owned planes that didn't cost that much   :HitPalm

Well, finally the neighbour with the table saw got my stringers cut - from clear pine  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

Now the good news; up above some where I noted that the spruce stringer weighed 9.5 gms each on the pivot scale I set up. Well the pine only weights 7gm on the same 46 inch pivot  :Rock :Rock

So all 54 pine stringers will weigh .83119 lb at the tail, a savings of .306 lbs at the tail. AND, with my nose to tail ratio of 5.411,  an additional 1.655 lb to balance at the nose...total weight savings of 1.961 lb.  :huhsign

So without doing anything I've built almost 2 lb "off" the final weight  :canada2 :party :canada2

Gotta love it when something seems to work out... >:(

[smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Looking good, Sandy!

Well, starting the stringers  >:( all 54 of 'em! After the top center one is in, everything else is pairs.... don't know if it's visible on the front view, but there is a line up mark on the table under the firewall, and I'm also lined up with a seam on the wall behind (actually the picture is slightly to one side)... so place a pair of stringers on...check the alignment, glue the front 2 formers, check the alignment, glue 2 more...and etc... :wallbash

In front of the sloping "head rest former" on top there should be a solid sheet, but I'm going to put in a cockpit  :Naaah so I'm doubling up the stringers along there to hopefully reinforce things enough.

---

I heard that some Chinese ARF manufacturers visited this site.  apparently their screams were heard in Vietnam and elsewhere.  Rumor has it they are going to double the weight of their ARFs ( in a vein attempt to introduce quality and precision.

over the years lots of screams have been heard in Viet Nam... no one cared  >:(

Brian, I've spent a lot  :violin of time trying to figure out how to build this thing lighter but no joy >:(   Massive firewall, but I need the weight to balance the tail  :dead_horse Various versions have been reported from 22 pounds to 35 pounds  :Anyone

I hope to hit the 25 lb mark - might be achievable because some of the '80s building techniques are "heavy", but there seem to be practical limits to how much can be taken off... :'(

waverider wrote on Aug 28^th, 2013 at 10:18am:

( in a vein attempt to introduce quality and precision.

I'd like to introduce some quality and precision, but it is me we're talking about here  :Thanks

Fingers wrote on Aug 28^th, 2013 at 10:30am:

over the years lots of screams have been heard in Viet Nam... no one cared  >:( Brian, I've spent a lot  :violin of time trying to figure out how to build this thing lighter but no joy >:(   Massive firewall, but I need the weight to balance the tail  :dead_horse Various versions have been reported from 22 pounds to 35 pounds  :Anyone I hope to hit the 25 lb mark - might be achievable because some of the '80s building techniques are "heavy", but there seem to be practical limits to how much can be taken off... :'(

I was trying to indicate what a great job you are doing.

waverider wrote on Aug 29^th, 2013 at 9:43pm:

I was trying to indicate what a great job you are doing.

Nah, don't do that Brian.  You know how all that praise goes to Finger's head.  ;D ;D ;D  :master

waverider wrote on Aug 29^th, 2013 at 9:43pm:

Fingers wrote on Aug 28th, 2013 at 10:30am: over the years lots of screams have been heard in Viet Nam... no one cared  >:( Brian, I've spent a lot  :violin of time trying to figure out how to build this thing lighter but no joy >:(   Massive firewall, but I need the weight to balance the tail  :dead_horse Various versions have been reported from 22 pounds to 35 pounds  :Anyone I hope to hit the 25 lb mark - might be achievable because some of the '80s building techniques are "heavy", but there seem to be practical limits to how much can be taken off... :'( I was trying to indicate what a great job you are doing.

wasn't flaming you Brian... if I could combine precision and quality, AND lighten the 4kn thing up, I'D be selling plans for it.... frustrating to have this great looking planform, and know that weight thingy is always there.... :timetobuild

administrator wrote on Aug 29^th, 2013 at 10:25pm:

waverider wrote on Aug 29th, 2013 at 9:43pm: I was trying to indicate what a great job you are doing. Nah, don't do that Brian.  You know how all that praise goes to Finger's head.  ;D ;D ;D  :master

praise me, c'mon praise me.... just a little eh? C'mon ya buggers.. :boxing :Fun_bat :WhatWasThat

and every once in a while I like to pop the cowl on and dream a bit.. :thinking

something else I'm doing a bit different...plans call for the stringers to be 1/8 x 1/4, which makes them flush with the edges of the formers - then once the sheeting is on the front and under the tail tack a 1/8 square balsa strip on each stringer make them flush with the new sheeting to give that "stringer" look..what I'm doing, is making the stringers 1/8 x 3/8. I put them on, mark where the sheeting will end, then I'm stripping each stringer back to the 1/4..
they fit flush up front, but present as stringers along the back sides...  :huhsign  That's about as clear as mud isn't it...

If you look closely, you can see the notched stringers starting at former 7, the second of the half formers..in pic 1, right above the battery pack sitting on the table..

---

lookin good sandy, you can even see the hurri lines showing up.  they didn't get that way in a hurri though.

and that little battery won't cut it.  jon's 109 will be chewing on the tail feathers.  ;D

doubt if that pack would even spin the prop - probably something like a 22x10 3 blade is scale...that I'll get figured in about 2 years...

did you see the atv news tonight?  a full scale hurricane from vintage wings is in saint john for a ceremony there in the morning honoring nb floors killed during ww2.  great looking airplane and if I was a bit younger I'd drive up to see it.

that would be sweet, and if I wasn't having a colon thingy tomorrow  :shots I'd thnk about going....

Quote:

nb floors killed during ww2

Yes Al, how many nb floors were killed during WWII? :-?  ;D ;D

that's what you get when you type on a tablet with auto correct.  ;D

now you sea, Eye was just two polite to point that oat...  ;D

I know it's wayyyy early  :WhatWasThat, but looking for source of 1/5 scale WWII British pilot figure......with that I can monkey around with a cockpit while I carve stringers.... :gossip

and since the reply to the request for a pilot received such overwhelming response, I'm also looking for some carbon fibre cloth....

want to make a frame for the canopy so I can maybe make it openable (opener, decloser, sliderabile)

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/5-29-World-war-ii-british-pilots-pilot-caltek-12-dolls/943098386.html

If you weren't stoned all the time you could probably find this on your own  ;D

P.S. Thunderbolt rc has a carbon fibre sale today.

Well, he could write about the search.  ;D

And add it to Wikipedia.  ;D

am stoned, but took a good look at this pilot - geeez there's even 6 bullets for his Webley....but can't find a size anywhere.....need about 13 or 14 inch pilot for scale....


and the Thunderbolt sale is for carbon fiber sheet and rods and stuff - I was looking for cloth..

The pilot's a 12 inch, should fit the bill for your application. I've got a BBI 12 inch pilot for mine, looks good.

Fingers wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 12:14pm:

...and the Thunderbolt sale is for carbon fiber sheet and rods and stuff - I was looking for cloth..

try hobbyking
i bought some about a year ago
they could stuff an envelope with it
should be a cheap ship

Great Hobbies is have a big sale on CST composites this weekend. There's a good chance they will have what your looking for.  non-purple

Al

Glen wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 9:21pm:

The pilot's a 12 inch, should fit the bill for your application. I've got a BBI 12 inch pilot for mine, looks good.

Looked at BBI.  They have a nice Desert campaign pilot, but I guess I'm too old for that web site...couldn't get past the expanded photo, with the "decommissioned" button...

And thank you Cool Man..... done

You're right, the desert pilot is nice, I have one right here on my desk. The down side is they stopped making it a year or two ago, so you have to go to evilbay or a collector to find one. They also did a battle of britan pilot as one of the first in the series, don't ask what they go for now that they've been out of production for 4-5 years.

I just got one off E-bay for about 70$ at the door for my spit.
It's the battle of Britain one. ::)

The BBI one ?
You're lucky, the usually run about $200 now

Could be, I seen it so I grabbed it. [smiley=laugh.gif]

last time i used that excuse I got slapped  :boxing :Fun_bat

I know where there's a BBI North Africa campaign British pilot but the guy won't let it go.....he's a clarinet player in a school band or something  :lalala, has no interest in airplanes, but  :wallbash

so I'll just check the evilBay daily..... >:(

I might know where there's another one. A pilot buddy of mine had a few including the brit. I'll ask him if he still has them.

Have I  told you lately how much I like you Glen????  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

Course, at my rate of "build", won't need a pilot for 5 years or so...just thought it would be nice to have it so i could muddle with the cockpit as I wander along....

Off topic on topic.....one of the problems guys seem to have with this plane is getting it to flare on landing... >:(   Since I'm hardly going to be invited to Top Gun with it   :violin  I'd given some thought to enlarging the tail stuff....

Opinions please -  :Anyone   would it be better to increase the span of the tail, or increase the chord??  Just askin'

Both.

try to keep the tail aspect ratio the same otherwise you may enter tail buffet in high g manoevers with consequest tailplane stall
try to keep the AR around 6 at the tail

dont know what it is now

waverider wrote on Dec 8^th, 2013 at 4:26am:

try to keep the tail aspect ratio the same otherwise you may enter tail buffet in high g manoevers with consequest tailplane stall try to keep the AR around 6 at the tail dont know what it is now

well, the plans show the span of the horizontal stab at 25" and the chord varies from 7.5" to 9.5".....so the AR varies around 3 and a bit.. ("and a bit" is a British term used in a lot of their aircraft designs")

This isn't even close to Brian's AR of 6. So what am i measuring wrong..

Fingers wrote on Dec 8^th, 2013 at 12:03pm:

waverider wrote on Dec 8th, 2013 at 4:26am: try to keep the tail aspect ratio the same otherwise you may enter tail buffet in high g manoevers with consequest tailplane stall try to keep the AR around 6 at the tail dont know what it is now well, the plans show the span of the horizontal stab at 25" and the chord varies from 7.5" to 9.5".....so the AR varies around 3 and a bit.. ("and a bit" is a British term used in a lot of their aircraft designs" This isn't even close to Brian's AR of 6. So what am i measuring wrong..

Your AR of 3 is fine it is less than 6

methods to increase elevator effectiveness
1.  land with an aft cg
2.  place vortex generators ahead of the elevator hinge line
3.  change the tail setting angle to increase the angle of attack in the landing configuration, and thus the circulation around the horiz. tail.  NB:  This will affect the normal straight and level trim and the aerobatic manoeuvre margins.
4.  maintain the AR at 3 and increase the tail volume
(http://adg.stanford.edu/aa241/stability/taildesign.html)
(http://www.aalmps.com/tv.htm)
(http://www.djaerotech.com/dj_askjd/dj_questions/tail_coef.html)

OK, thought you meant AR had to BE 6... the Stanford paper seems to think 4.5 - 5 is ideal, so could I increase span a bit and leave the chord  ???

If you increase the AR then it may help but it will affect trim for cruise straight and level due to the change in download on the tail increasing the chord of the elevator (reducing the AR) and increasing the semi span to maintain AR 3 is probably one way.  The simplest of increasing the AR or maintaining AR3 with increased chord.  Again I say landing with aft cg may solve your issues as long as you are calm on the sticks..

bear in mind that the spit and to a lesser extent the hurri were very pitch sensitive animals at full scale.  Surprisingly their roll rates were quite average.  Pilots had difficulty with the pitch sensitivity.

Do  you find that with a scale Hurri?

This does imply the distance from the cg to the tail AC was made shorter by Camm and Mitchell such that the pitch sensitivity helped the pilot achieve a better roll rate by pulling and rolling simultaneously.

ME 109 experten trimmed the a/c nose up and flew with pressure on the stick.  This was to improve the a/c response in roll when evading a bounce.

I have landed the twin engine DH Dove with a full complement of Pax and that beast ran out of trim during the last part of the approach with dunlops dangling and going to land flap.  So this was an a/c where you landed with disconcerting back stick pressure prior to flare.

Well, following some threads elsewhere.....stock size tail works as long as you have at least 1" up elevator on landing, and you're balanced at 4.5". Real Hurri required full back stick when flaps lowered - FULL BACK - in your gut, bend the stick, no flare, nada

This is interesting
You may have found it
http://vaillyaviation.com/images/Hurricane%20landing%20technique.pdf

I have my stability and control reference books packed in boxes somewhere.  If I can locate them I will do some calls
I need to know the model scale %

Regards
B

have that write up from Roy, thanks.  Keeping the weight down is the biggest challenge I think, besides getting ti built that is  :shots

The plane is 1/5 +- scale

impressions from Chris Erdos
A normal approach starts with a fighter-style overhead break. I always look inside for a moment to ensure that I work the silly H-shaped lever in the right direction: inboard for undercarriage, outboard for flaps. Undercarriage and flap extension are both just slow enough to always raise a pucker of concern. Expect a BIG pitch trim change with flap extension, and it’s normal to run out of aft elevator trim on approach. Elevator effectiveness is poor in the 3-point attitude. Leave a trickle of power through the flare or it will drop out from under you. The landing is almost - pardon the pun – a bit of a let-down. It’s easy. The Hurricane’s undercarriage is wide and soft, and the directional stability and response allow adequate tracking through the roll-out. Compared to the Spitfire, there’s even enough download on the tail to allow some use of brakes.

Sandy, you would probably enjoy this video shot at the hamilton airshow this past summer I believe.  Five merlin equipped planes, the lanc, a mossie, two hurricanes and a mustang in a fantastic formation flight.  TEN merlins in the air at the same time.

There is one shot you would be interested in where one of the hurrcanes taxiis out for takeoff and you can really see the smaller tail feathers on the bird.

be warned however this is a 45 minute video and suggest you watch it when you have the time to enjoy it.  It is worth watching!

GOPRO photography at it's best!

www.youtube.com/embed/ceuU1UQuwVU?feature=player_detailpage

a couple of screen grabs from the video.

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small tail feathers, but it's a freaking brick truck compared with the Spit LOLOL

That's a super vodeo tho....I'd love to have a ride in that Mossie, perhaps more than the Lanc..

Now it's way too bad this dash board has all those red numbers scattered all over it  >:(...could almost make it work otherwise...

Can use it as a template tho to make a dash..

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was there, by any chance, a possibility that British pilots in Africa wore the blues? (Mike P where are you?). I can get this figure (thanks Cool) but the uniform is wrong - every thing I see has them wearing pretty scruffy khaki's...

http://www.warbirdpilots.com/WWII_British_RAF_RC_Pilot_Figure_p/british-raf-pilot-figure.htm

Of course the Mae West would be superfluously redundant I think..

Hmmm.  Let me check on that.

mpp

Only the high altitude reconnaissance would have worn warm clothing.

The woolen blues no.2s , I think, would have been worn at some formal event in Alexandra etc.

Shirt sleeves at low level and jacket up to 15000

Not much fighting went on at altitude
The order of the day was the luff berry defencive circle which was suicidal against the 109s which would dive in and out and pick them off one by one

The hurries later had the 4 20mm Hispano cannons which were heavy or the tank busting 40mm - I think

I have rad much about the desert warfare and all the pics were black and white
But I never saw blues

If you were over the med then you wore a Mae West

We'll call me a
Liar

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Here you go. No more red numbers....

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Seems to me that during WWII, RAF pilots stationed in the Mediterranean and the desert flew in sand coloured shirts and shorts.  I've looked through some of my books and found evidence of both sand and blue uniforms....so go figure???

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yup, sand is what I've been able to find, but BBI is the only one who made a Desert Dressed British pilot and i haven't been able to find on of those......

Mike, if you can just do that with the photo direct from the Haynes Hurricane Manual we'll have it made....  :D

Yup.  Scan it and send it to me.  Turn the resolution way up.

I kinda figured the pic came from Haynes.  I have the Spitfire version and it has the same sort of pic ....except its a Spitfire instrument panel.

So more pics
In the third they are wearing partly blues! AND Mae Wests
Seems like it was a min true of garb
Depending on individual taste, time of year and mission

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that last pic must be getting ready for higher altitude stuff....jump suits AND fleece lined leather jacket...

khaki shorts and #2 jackets, khaki shorts, khaki longs, black Oxfords, Wellies ...whatta bunch. did they never hear of "uniforms"  ;)

Sandy, FYI, I have a laser cut instrument panel here if you want to make yourself a copy.

Here ya go, Sandy!

http://www.aerocockpit.com/
http://www.iflytailies.com/

Just need lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$  ;)

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Steve Mosher wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 6:45pm:

Here ya go, Sandy! http://www.aerocockpit.com/ http://www.iflytailies.com/ Just need lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$  ;)

how much is 18euros?  Looks good Steve for instruments........

Glen, I'll take you up on the panel.... thank you kind sir.....coupled with the photo of the panel from the Hayes book.. [smiley=thumbup.gif]

Fingers wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 8:39pm:

Steve Mosher wrote on Dec 30th, 2013 at 6:45pm: Here ya go, Sandy! http://www.aerocockpit.com/ http://www.iflytailies.com/ Just need lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$  ;) how much is 18euros?  Looks good Steve for instruments........ Glen, I'll take you up on the panel.... thank you kind sir.....coupled with the photo of the panel from the Hayes book.. [smiley=thumbup.gif]

18 euros is $26.43 Canadian.

No problem, I'll dig it out and let you know. Pretty sure I know exactly where it is :)

http://www.strictlyscale.com/StrictlyScale/Hurricane.html


mick Reeves stuff panel part way down
http://www.mickreevesmodels.co.uk/~mickreev/spits/p4spit.htm

Dye me khaki I'm wearing wellies.

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thanks Brian....good article on the cockpit.....

nice pilot figure, where'd it come from?

well. pilot is on his way, being transferred from somewhere - do the Brits have a penal squadron?? Likely some insufferable hoity toity English snob with delusions of grandeur and an inflated opinion of his flying abilities.  >:(

Course, that description could fit several Canadians, at least one south African and maybe one or two Yanks.... :WEEEEE

Fingers wrote on Jan 1^st, 2014 at 11:55am:

do the Brits have a penal squadron

Nope
Just VR University squadron types with red silk blouse lining and white silk scarves

:)

Silk? Silk???SILK???? well they can just take their silk blouses and scarves and  :swear :swear :swear 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._601_Squadron_RAF

http://www.historicflyingclothing.com/archive.php

Well, committed now, or should be committed, at least have a pilot.. >:(

some hot shot little Scots criminal named Alister McAionish, hails from Kinlochlan, up in Moray. Miserable little twerp, only about 5 foot tall in his Wellies. Shows up here complete with parachute, helmet, goggles, mask.  [smiley=thumbup.gif]  I doubt the uniform is "theater" accurate ( or even War accurate) >:( but likely no one but Mr. Pothier will know  :D

Fair game little guy, crawled right into the frame work for a "fit". Looks like I might be able to build a cockpit around his cheap little donkey!! Found a couple threads about framing up a cockpit....give it a try i guess.

Bugger was only in my basement for 1 night and made a friend...what a party  :party :egyptian :Rock :Cheers  My Glenmorangie is almost all gone now  :'(....

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Don't forget to get the smell right
To be realistic the cockpit should have the faint odour of skunk.
...if you don't believe me sit in a fighter cockpit

Also the pilot should smell of a combination of beer, cigarettes smoke and stale sweat

After all, it's all about the realism in the hobby...isn't it?

waverider wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 10:06pm:

Don't forget to get the smell right To be realistic the cockpit should have the faint odour of skunk. ...if you don't believe me sit in a fighter cockpit Also the pilot should smell of a combination of beer, cigarettes smoke and stale sweat After all, it's all about the realism in the hobby...isn't it?

Harvard cockpit never smelled of skunk, just fear and oil... :-? oh yeh and sweat  >:(

OK!!! Let's stop dicking around here. Made up the tail gear mount (realized at the last minute I'd better put that in before I go much further with the stringers  :excited - it could get tight in there.  :wallbash

3/8 aircraft ply, supported with 1/8 poplar - you can see the 1/4 triangle stock inside, and there will be 1/4 triangle stock outside as well. I mean, this IS part of the landing gear, for a plane I hope to fly - work it out.. ::)

Some effort was made to ensure the plate is square to the fuse.. DuBro 5/32 nylon mount will go on - yes the plate is already drilled and blind nuts installed...WITH EPOXY!!  >:(

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waverider wrote on Jan 9^th, 2014 at 10:06pm:

Don't forget to get the smell right To be realistic the cockpit should have the faint odour of skunk. ...if you don't believe me sit in a fighter cockpit Also the pilot should smell of a combination of beer, cigarettes smoke and stale sweat After all, it's all about the realism in the hobby...isn't it?

Jeez Brian, you must have worked on the avro and Hadley-Page , I wondered who left the skunk there, too😜
Probably the "VULCANized" instrument cables....

Plus, this is a hurricane, so any booze smell will be Gin (oh bless my ewe bushes )

and tail gear done   :Raa Raa

something achieved

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two more stringers (per side... = 4) and the fuse comes off the jig.  Two of the 4 are rough cut and hanging off the sides.

Crap I'm old...had no idea how much stripping the pine stringers would irritate the arthritis between my knuckles  :-/

Once off the jig I have to start on the stab and wing because this fits to that but that needs this to be built so that fits this ....... :o

my precioussssss, mustn't lose my precioussssss, I needs my precioussss yessss I doessss - mister Bagginses wants to steal my .......... um  :Ahoops

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Looking good, Sandy.  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

At least you're making progress... I haven't been in my building room since before Christmas  :-/

maybe, but you've been losing weight..... :Raa Raa   I've just been sogging around.. :more mods surfing and minding the dog...

Just because I could, and because I really wanted something sheeted, I made up the doghouse for behind the cockpit.
Used a piece of file folder to get the shape, made two pieces from 1/8 sheet and glued them together....this is a place where you should use carpenters glue of some kind - it sands better than CA  [smiley=thumbup.gif] (wipe surplus glue off as soon as you put sides together). Put the pieces together and tape with plastic electrical tape - this stuff stretches so will put a little "clamping motion" on the pieces. You'll likely have to put weights on both sides to ensure they stay flat.
Once dry I sprayed the outside with ammonia window cleaner and worked the piece around a small can to get some curve, then taped it over the fuse to dry. I put some Saran wrap (advertisement) under the piece to keep the water off the stringers.
Piece is dry this morning and ready to glue - yeh!  :Raa Raa

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Hmmmmm. should I use the vacuum formed, or titivate up the plywood version (copy of a laser item  Glenn got from the USA)

:Anyone :huhsign :popcorn

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I like the vaccum formed

so do I Ben, here's what the original looked like

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What are you going to do for the part that is missing at the top?

A quick search brought this one up.  Looks pretty fancy!

http://www.cockpitscale.com/product/hurricane-complete-cockpit-for-brian-taylor-70-177-cm-fits-all-aircrafts-around-70-177-cm/

http://www.cockpitscale.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/HURRY_c_cockpit_bt_1-400x400.jpg

Have a cockpit kit Ben, and there's a gun sight to fill the hole...

Didn't realize till after I posted that area was for the gun sight.  Quite a few nice cockpits out there.  Some are very pricey...

Yup, didn't feel like spending 150 Euro for some plastic. I appreciate some of these guys put a ton of work into their creations, but being retarded sorry retired I can't keep up. I got a kit from Dynamic Balsa..was able to pick and choose what i wanted. Didn't bother with the soldered brass frame. got the seat, dash, compass, gun sight - the kind of stuff you see easily.

Just noticed this thread has over 14,000 views.  :o Wonder how many you will have once finished?

most of those views are skeptics, proving to them selves I'm not progressing - they can see the page count is still at 8....once I really get back at it, and the page count hits 50 or 60  they'll lose interest...... >:(

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Well, something I'd let slip from memory is that, YOU HAVE TO PLAN AHEAD.. >:(  Suddenly realized that I was thinking of starting to begin finishing the stringers, but hadn't done anything about the tank yet, nor the cowl  :HitPalm

Since I don't want a ring of small screws around the edge of the cowl, guess maybe have to use something else..Using the firewall as a template, I cut a ply ring - traced shape on plywood, cut outside to shape, then figured where i wanted bolt tabs, drew inside and cut with trusty sabre. Spacing of tabs was important; need enough (4 likely) but also want flexibility so down the road if the plane flies and looks like it will last  ::) i could "consider" scale exhaust (Todd) and would need to split the cowl along the scale seam.  :huhsign

Ring fits..

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With the ring clamped in place, drilled for the blind nuts, bolted the ring in place to fit....diddle fit just fine.

Put the ring in the cowl, bolted it on and Voila (that's French for holy cr** it might work).

Of course, we are working with blind nuts. SO, the bolt wouldn't go into one of the nuts  :swear This with the nut held inside behind the stringers, from the wing saddle area,  by my trusty brain bone picker forceps...

tried new bolt, worked!!!!  :Raa Raa :intheair [smiley=vrolijk_1.gif] :Im Happy

Next, 24 hours with hysol, and the ring is permanently attached to the cowl, and I have an invisible mount... :P

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I had always hoped to hide both the switch, and the retract air fillerupper (very technical term). The hurricane has 2 large hatches on the starboard side, but few people ever take pictures or draw 3 views of that side.

Turns out Dave Rowe, from Shearwater, has a drawing hanging on the wall at the museum, with a scaled drawing of the right side.... [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]   Piece of tracing paper, 5 minutes, sketch of the area in question. Trip to Kwik Kopy, scaled up tracing, taped to side of fuse, jiggling, juggling, profile of the 2 hatches. I'll make both, but only gonna use the rear one, and I'm going to truncate it to fit between the formers (shhhh don' tell anyone), but the switch will be in there..

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Hysol doing it's thing (curing for 24 hours)  :popcorn

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The company that puts out the cockpit kit i bought says the floor is 6" down from the sill of the cockpit...that's about at the top of the tape. The seat tho is roughly where it has to be to suit the pilot....
I thought the pilots' legs stuck out straighter than they suggest....think I'll go with the floor just under the crutch. If the pilots legs don't fit I'll do a "Doug Bader"

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While diddling with the fuse hatch (still waiting for the retract air fillerupper) I decided it was time to begin thinking about starting the back end thingy that sits parallel to the wing (WE live in a dream world here) and holds the upper downers...

There are no hints anywhere for how much the ribs have to be shimmed up, and all the threads indicate this is a vertical build..... Oh Joy to the World   :Raa Raa this is going to be so much fun..cut the stab trailing edge, center line/rib lines yadda yadda; center lines on each rib, 1 2 3  blocks to hold each vertical, and perpendicular. Do center first, than pairs from outside in.

Always hoping that somehow the front center lines of the ribs do line up so the leading edge can go on..... :Fun_bat   :popcorn

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Nice work Sandy!  Your getting there.
I like your parallel blocks too.

Fussy, fussy;  :excited  Not sure if anything was really achieved, but I strung a thread from each end of the trailing edge, over the ends of the ribs - used it as a straight edge on the front.. :huhsign

thread was thinner than the pen line so not sure of the accuracy, and the leading edge will jam stuff into place if not too far off.... I think.. :shots

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Huh? Is Christmas over all ready???  :D Way too much coffee @ Bailey's  :-[

Anyhow, stab ribs on (discovered the laser cut ribs not quite correct) hardwood spars, then manufactured tips to suit. (no details on the plan) (but that's what plans are for). So now tips have to be sanded to match the leading edge profile, then sheet the thing....

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Start of scale hinging on stab - flying by the seat of my drawers here...

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I always find hinging to be difficult; I generally screw it up.

I know the square root of squat about how the control surfaces on a Hurricane were hinged.  Where did you get your documentation?

Keep the pictures coming.

Looks great Sandy! However I thinks you need to turn them there thing 90 deg for it to work? :I Didnt Do It

You never know with those british engineered things Al  ::)

Mike - I'd started these from Vaillincourt's web site on making scale hinges, then took a good look at some photos I have and realized with the hurricane I'd be better off using G10 instead of ply. Concept is right, but hinge way too thick. (He was talking about thicker looks better). Well he's wrong in this instance...

Cool - p*** off  :D

Glen - did I ever tell you the story of how the Brits fixed the problem with the wings on the Comet breaking off?  No? Fine.. >:(

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PS - I have a cd with about 100 photos of the one that landed in Saint John 2 years ago. also a short Vid of the start-up.

Copies can be had

LOL, no you did not, but I think they fixed it by putting round window's in  ;)

The windows fixed the fuse problem.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

There also was a problem with the wing. One broke off on the test plane, and there were signs of a tear on the second (before they got the plane into service). :wallbash The imminent tear was in the same place as the break on the first one. Every engineer on the island got involved, because the Comet was to be the salvation of the British aerospace industry, AND the airline industry... no joy >:(

Finally a young guy suggested they go discuss the problem with "   " (you can likely floogle his name), an old, gnarly, retired Dehavilland  engineer of the Hart, Dart, Fury era. He thought for a while, then suggest they drill a series of tiny holes (.001 comes to mind) right along the line where the wings broke and/or were stressing. Top and bottom. Right through the skin. It worked!!!! And the industry was saved. Gnarly one was Knighted.  :Raa Raa

plans show stab as sheeted @ 3/32, but original is canvas, along with elevators and fin/rudder.  (Confirmed by guys at BBMF)

So, guess I'll leave it open with Leading edge and capstrips, same as fin and rudder will be

SO, now I'm editing again:

And after hours or heart rending pondering and studying, :Really Im Reading I decided to make the hinges from 1/8 ply. I was thinking G10 for strength, but remembered each side is going to have 4 large Robart hinges, PLUS the two large bearings at the center around the elevator joiner. I "think" it's strong enough. If 1/8 looks too thin I can double up to 1/4 easily.

A major deciding factor is that a 12x12 sheet of 1/8 G10 is $33.00 plus shipping/taxes/etc.  :-/

---

So, modified hinge idea, rotated "them there thing 90 deg"  per the Cool comment,  and in.

The hinge on the Robarts will be spaced from the trailing edge the same amount. Hopefully, once the elevator leading edge is built around this stuff all will pivot scalely..(important aeronautic term) . Robart has confirmed  their points can be offset, and if I'm uncomfortable with their strength I can set them in a 7/32 brass tube from trailing edge to pivot.... :thinking






:popcorn

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Well, back part of leading edge notched for ply hinge and drilled for robarts....then a secondary leading edge to secure the nyrod...then stuff and more stuff;

The center of the leading edge will be cut out and replaced with an aluminum rod (instead of the 25 gms of 3/16 piano wire joiner. Add a few ribs and the ply trailing edge, some capstrips, build up the leading edge and round it.....and Frank's my Uncle..

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I though it was Bob? ::)

Looking good!

Keep it going Sandy, looking good.. 8-)

I do NOT have an Uncle Bob!!  >:(

Norman, Ross, Frank, Earl, Tug, Rupert.........NO BOBS  :)

I love the attention being paid to hinging detail.  'Good stuff' Sandy.

Thanks Mike, was just going to use robarts...but that darn end hinge is just so flangdering huge I had no choice...getting all the hinge points at the same place is the challenge.

At least on the tail plane there are three large hinges, so just have to make them, not mix with the Robarts...

OK, starting on the elevators - Some of the ribs. Each side has 2 outer ribs that poke forward and make the counterbalances. Gonna be tough to get them straight - can't use my 1-2-3's        :timetobuild:wallbash :violin

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And dry fit the trailing edge......

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Looks great! Keep them coming.

AAARRRRGGGGHHHHH talking to Cool today about that heavy joiner wire between the elevators, and could I replace it with 2 servos up inside.....he recommended 2 servos set inside the stabs.... :swear

Crud, why didn't I think of that instead of blindly following the plans......... :wallbash

Jeez it sucks to get old  >:(  Now to find two strong but not behemouthy servos... :D

MH has some nice new tactic servo's that would fit the bill nicely.

Thank you kind sir.......don't want much. small, thin, HV, steel gears, fast, $19.95   ::)

LOL, don't know if they can get in under that, but I do know that they've got some that will fit the bill for less than double that amount.

Of course, if you're heading to Nevada or California any time soon, you might want to consider these :
http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php/hobby-people-hp-d58mhv-hi-torq-mg-bb-digital-servo-208oz-in.html

Look very fine, but what is the quality I wonder? Price is right....when's your next trip down there??

Don't have any of that exact servo (but I will sooner or later), do have their equivalent of a hitec645, works the same for about half the price. I think they might be even made in the same factory  ;)
As far as being down there, sadly no plans in the near future. Perhaps we need to plan a boy's weekend in vegas, you know, just to grab a few ::)

For some reason I'd have more faith in a hitec than a Hobby People - not sure why  :P  I should probably be start accumulating a set of these; need about 7, and some smaller for throttle and retract.

And Remember, what you grab in Vegas stays in Vegas, so that's no good for a servo trip... >:(

http://www.thunderboltrc.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=281&products_id=2215

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9441__Turnigy_8482_620DMG_High_Torque_DS_MG_10_6kg_0_13sec_52g.html

there is a TGY which is made in Taiwan and is a bluebird

For some reason "Bluebird" conjures up images of tiny 4gm servos in Depron indoor planes. These seem to have some torque, not sure; gonna have to lift the elevators on a 25+lb plane in flight

Darn these elevators are over engineered. His inner "ends" on the elevators are made from 4 pieces of 1/4 balsa sanded down to half round, but the full scale has inner edges same sharp as the trailing edge  - now that makes sense doesn't it  :-/ 

Looks like lots of sanding here..and whittling...and maybe even leaving pieces out

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That's the elevator trim tab
😎

actually that's the rudder trim tab on the right. I was trying to show the inner edge of the elevator off to the left, just beside the fitting for the rudder cable. Not a great photo of it, but all I have.

Jack, stab assembled, and I make no claims as to precision or butt gluing, however there is a lot of consumption of time. Mostly trying to figure out exactly what the drawings are saying...Jeez I know Glen, the drawings aren't "saying" anything, I have to read and interpret.  >:(

However, at this stage, BEFORE any sanding, the stuff is exactly 6 ounces. I'm still undecided about whether to use 1 elevator servo in the front, or two in the stabs. That will make a weight difference. Now to sand!!! Try to match the profile on the pictures I have from the real one.

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Looking at the stab on your scale gives me a sense of the size of the thing...its gonna be a big brute.

Looking good man.   

Mike, I've flown RC planes with WINGS smaller than this stab  ;)


Quote:

Looking good man.

   thank you kind sir.

Now to see how much weight I can sand off.............remember, every ounce i can get off the tail is 5.41 I don't need on the nose. Unless it's there to hold something important on.. ::)

Well, about 2 years ago I posted about making a hatch on the starboard side to hide the switches and junk.

Cover made (if i can find it) and the panel behind made - 2 deans plug short switches (dunno what they're really called), the air valve and the air pressure guage.

This Hurri I won't have to stand on it's nose to fill the air.

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Just to show I'm not perfect, despite what you all think, I FUBAR'd in a major way. Despite all my measuring when I set up the crutch at the start of this exercise, i buggered.  :wallbash

I got the end former in the wrong place! About 1/2 inch short. Never came up till I was wondering how the stab might look on the fuse. The bed for the stab obviously sticks out past the end former.  :-?

Fortunately, working with wood instead of composite, things can be sanded, glued, covered, and otherwise hidden, so it is fixable, but I've run out of emoticons ... :ImWithStupid

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Well if you were going to place a former in the wrong spot, that's the one. I foresee you making a second former and replacing a couple of stringers. 8-)

Yup, guess that's what I'm going to do.

And I know what I did first time round - when adding the inch on the front to help balance I pulled the jig forward leaving the tail former in the wrong place  ::)

I agree with Glen.  Make an intermediate former and rejig some stringers; keeps the plane from getting tail heavy, and keeps the proportions right.

Awwwwwwwwww - I've looked at that inside former; take the old former out, make a new  interim former, keep the stringers in the right places, CR**! FUBAR!

For the 1/2 inch involved, adding a new end piece is a lot less effort. By the time everything is done the stab will be 6 ounces again, with an extra 1/2 inch on the balance arm.

Proporations are already screwy because I lengthened the nose..... :swear :wallbash :dead_horse :Fun_bat :gimpy :swear :shots :dusty

And the tail wheel mount is on that inside former..plus the fuse, from the second last former to the end, is sheeted. Stringer work is minimized, my FUBAR gets hidden, I'll put 1 servo inside instead of 2 in the stabs, balance won't be tooooo bad with 1/2 inch overlong, and I can justify till the cows come home  :D

Go for it Sandy!

I think, therefore I am.                                          confused

add the 1/2 inch and hide the fubar with the sheeting.
2 servos, up in the wing saddle area with everything else....cf pushrods (2)
way to go
yup
think so
likely
absotively

elevator sanded a bit - 4/10 of an ounce off

6.6% of the total hor. stab dry weight. Since i have to add the horns, and cover, gotta get as much off as possible. But then, haven't sanded the stab yet. Likely get an ounce off total, but add 2 back on.  >:(

woohoooo!

Fingers wrote on Feb 27^th, 2016 at 9:06pm:

Likely get an ounce off total, but add 2 back on.

That sounds familiar.  Been there, done that.

You're making great progress, Sandy. Look good!!

Awesome seeing all this balsa glued together.Meanwhile, I can't even figure why my flaps are messed up on my turbine  >:( >:( >:(

another 10th of an ounce.....the center gets cut out, be replaced by brass tube attached to one side only - for esthetics  >:(.  I'm going with 2 servos inside, try and keep weight off the tail.

Dubro Ball link control horns. Think they do an unobtrusive job, and their bases will be covered by the fabric..

Steve - "flaps messed up.........turbine" it's all there in the one comment. Blow torches and carbon; don't think so... ::)

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Having duly considered the effort to move the inside former and reset/replace the stringers, I finally went with the quick and dirty approach, giving me a "not perfect but kind of OK"  result.

Data line down the top centre stringer, plum line down the new end piece, lots of clamps, forgot the glue and had to take it apart, ADD THE GLUE, then realign and re-clamp.

Once the stab is on, the fin is on, and the fuse under the stab is covered with the scale sheeting on the tail, only Mike, Glen, Cool, a few thread watchers, and I will know it's wrong.

On the bright side, a screwp that would normally ground me for about 2 months has been dealt with in only 3 weeks.  :Raa Raa AADD be darned!! In the process, I've confirmed a long held belief among aircraft builders.....

FUBAR/SNAFU = TLAR    >:( :shots

Oh yes - the addition is 3 plys of 1/4 ply, plus 1 of 1/8. Hollowed out inside it weighs .64 oz, so I'm going to have to build in 3.5 ounces up front to offset it.

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Once you take the clamps off it will likely only be 2oz.

Just saying....

Also I thinks you will find far larger sin in the real macoy if you were to dig.
Keep going Sandy. You may not have to will that to me yet! ;D

The rearrangement looks great, Sandy.  Well done.

As it zooms along the flight line at 5 metres AGL all that anyone will notice is that it looks like a proper fighter.

Yeah, that looks like it'll be just the ticket.

Vertical fin started - laser cutting not as good as I'd hoped for, but "fixable"

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Fin and rudder done in rough.  Set some hinges, sand, dick around, fix, redo, sand, cover.....


I've flown lots of planes smaller than the rudder on this thing......

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Well, I needed more weight on the nose to offset the FUBAR'd tail former "fixed" about 6 posts ago... :nowhinezone

The engine I was going to use won't work. Being a copy of an old 3W, the carb is on the side, and just will not fit under the cowl, requiring a humungos/hemungous/homingis  ... very large hole in the cowl and carb sticking out about an inch.  :crappyday MikeP would never forgive me.

So,  :shots I have to make a 1 1/4 inch engine box to stand the DLE off from the firewall. Oh joy oh bliss  :swear

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Well, this makes the prop plate just clear the front of the cowl (once I cut it up  :wallbash) and also moves the CG ahead... [smiley=thumbsup.gif] so I guess all is not lost..

Gonna hate to make that first  :'( :-/ cut  :swear :Im Happy in the bottom of that nice, smooth firm round piece of fiberglass joy, so well ...... :( sorry..

I'll be careful.

I also have another 16 5mm bolts, 2 3/4 in. long if anyone needs something like that..to go with the 40 or so 5mm x 2 1/4 in. bolts.

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AAANNNDDD FUBAR'D but quite usable   :Raa Raa   Few fender washers and the clearance is right - need 3/16 to clear, so go for 1/4

---

I don't see no FUBAR.  It looks pretty neat and tidy to me.

Curious to learn what sort of muffler you will be using.  Will it be mostly inside the cowl'?

Well, the DLE comes with one of those quaint side thingy's...what I'd really like to do is learn to braze and make something more scalery/scaley/real looking - but that would be a challenge. ;)

open to offers to teach me brazing.. ::)

Well, these standoff standoffs will do the trick. By the time I put the spinner backplate on, plenty of prop clearance 

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There's a fuel tank inside. Don't know anything about these rotary fuel tanks, but Frank Tiano tells me this is the only fuel tank he uses in his giant scale planes - good enough for him good enough for me.   ::)

I wanted to put the fill on top of the fuse; there's a hinged cover on the real hurricane about midway between the glass and the cowl, but darned if I can get a good pic of it, or actual location. So I'm going to take a tip from Todd's Strega. I noticed his fill line exits in the hatch he uses for switches and all that stuff, so, pending more info on the top front cover, I'll go with this location...

With the tank in I can start working around where the throttle and choke servo go, THEN can think about sheeting the front.

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Looking good, Sandy!!

Couldn't wait for LHS any more, so tied the fuel tubing off with micro wire ties and installed the tank. Screws in so I "should' be able to get it out if needs be.  :Thanks

Tank is in the way of the pushrods to the carb!!  :HitPalm Don't engine manufacturers think of this stuff when they design the engines??? Throttle will be easy, but choke will require a bit of effort - think I'm going to put a servo plate on the side of the fuse to the right behind the tank, under that red tube which will be the throttle pushrod feed. The servos will be on their side sticking into the area behind the stringers  :huhsign

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Yes in deed it does come out....talking to Todd (bitchin'  :( to Todd about how hard it is to get the throttle and choke lines around the tank :wallbash) he asked "WHY do you have the tank stuffed into that little hole Bob put on the plans? The engine does have a pump you know!!!"  :-/

So, after discussing a brass tank (not needed but wonderful idea Todd) I realized I can put up to a 24 oz. tank up under the front of the fuse right behind the dash, and more over the CG. DOH!! And amazing how much easier to feed the engine pushrods through then.... ;)

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The things you think about when driving through the boring barrens of northern New Brunswick!! When cutting the firewall out, I followed the inside of the lines on the template - not enough.. :-?
As you can see the cowl is flush with the stringers, before the sheeting is put on... :wallbash So now I mark 3/32 around the edge of the firewall and start sanding  :dead_horse With care I can taper everything back smoothly..... :-/
Well, since the sheeting is 3/32, perhaps a bit less than 3/32 is the best, gives some sanding room...so 1/16 all around

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I sincerely hope that Spackle and glue are scale  ::)  Lots of sheets - fitting, gluing, sanding, filling, sanding  >:(

Pins, did I mention pins!!!!! Luckily I have a box of map pins from Staples I got years ago.....pins, pins, lots of pins............. :shots :wallbash :bedtime

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Fingers wrote on Sep 21^st, 2016 at 6:46pm:

I sincerely hope that Spackle and glue are scale  ::)  Lots of sheets - fitting, gluing, sanding, filling, sanding  >:( Pins, did I mention pins!!!!! Luckily I have a box of map pins from Staples I got years ago.....pins, pins, lots of pins............. :shots :wallbash :bedtime

Ready to put your head in that vise yet Sandy?  :D

still pins, but each piece gets a bit better...by the time I'm finished this exercise I'll be ready for #2.... ::)

still viceless Ben, still viceless  :(

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Fingers wrote on Sep 27^th, 2016 at 2:16pm:

still pins, but each piece gets a bit better...by the time I'm finished this exercise I'll be ready for #2.... ::) still viceless Ben, still viceless  :(

Sorry I was never a kit builder does #2 reference a bowel movement or something else?

WELL, some say I'm full of sh**, and there are mornings when I'm ......... :-?

anyway, no, #2 here refers to the second Hurricane for which fuse parts are already cut out...see the second post on page 1.... :). By the time I get this fuse and wing sheeted (relearning old stuff) the second one would be a snap...

Cut, fit, pin, take off and trim, re-fit with more pins, take off and trim again...trial fit  :Raa Raa
Neat thing is this piece fits the other side too, so make a copy and then

fit, trim a bit, fit, glue, pin, pin, some tape and a few more pins  :Naaah

THEN cut some saddles out....

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OK, basic sheeting done up front, :egyptian now cut out the wing saddles, sand, sand, sand, decide on the wing fairings, install the wing fairings and sand some more...pretty much at the point where I need a wing center section to continue.... :Thank You Loyal Fans

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Looking great, Sandy! I like it. Good to see real wood being used again.

Between this thread and looking at Al's plans for the big P-47, the building itch has got the Tigercat back to the table - just have to figure out where I was.

You're getting do good at sheeting, I just may have to offer a bribe or two to get mine done.  ;) ;)

Thanks Steve, but there are some big SNAFU's there, not quite FUBAR but close. Who remembered that sheeting liberally sprayed with windex might shrink!!!!!!  :wallbash  Oh well, inlay some thin strips and sand, sand, sand.......

Wing saddle rough cut - NOW starting to look like it might someday maybe become something recognizable as an aircraft.. [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]
Many ways to cut the saddle.. I took a piece of wire just long enough to fit between the sides, and sharpened the ends. Then laid the wire on the saddle inside, and ccaarrreeefffuulllyyy moved it side to side and punctured the sheeting. Then took a pencil and joined the dots - gave me the shape of the saddle on the outside. :-?
Then I cut a slit, slid a hack saw blade through side to side (fortunately my father's old stock from 157 years ago had a lot of very fine toothed blades.)  Slide, slide, saw, slide, saw, eventually "VOILA"  :Raa Raa  saddles on either side. Then of course we have 1/32 ply panels running back to the inside ply edges to give a finished look, but I can't do much more here until the wing center section is done....

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Your getting there Sandy, Looking good.

Sandy,
Any pics on the scheme you will be using?
Maybe it's there but might have missed it...

OK, I knew in a theoretical sense that the gear base would overlap the wing joint, but when you lay it out on the plans, cr**y poopinheimer!!! I would REALLY like to make a 3 piece wing for ease of storage, transport, assembly and other sources of hanger rash....
I guess one idea is to lengthen the center section by inch either end, moving rib 4 out  :wallbash :crappyday :bedtime, but if I do that, maaybe I should really enlarge the stab now that it's all done but for the sanding and covering...
:hide1 :swear

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That looks quit scary Sandy!  Do you cut the main spar to get the wheels up? If so what are the guys doing to strengthen the wing? Also were is the flap/ aileron joint in relation to the gear. Your pic doesn't show that.  That would be the place to cut if it's at all possible. Looks like a tough one to me. 

After a second look I see there's a 1/4 by 1/2 spar aft of the wheel well. So that be fine. That's where I'd put the wing tube. Looks to me the best place for the cut is dead center of the wheel well. Won't matter if the gear is up or down then, but I don't know were the side of the fuse is or were all the working are.
  Once you decide where to put it then the easy part is over.    just saying...

Easy as pie, Sandy. Just have a few drinks, start up the chain saw and make that first decisive cut  ;)

Unfortunately Al, the wheel wells are completely under the fuse. The dihedral break on the wing is that front to back double line through the gear base at rib 4. If I do put the break there, then 1/3 of the gear base is outside the break.
Kinda looks like an extra inch on either side of the center section might be the best way to go. If I put another rib 4 just outside the gear base..... :(

Another question.....what servos are you guys putting in the big warbirds?

Thought of Savox, but then remembered Steve's bomber  ::)

1 rudder
2 elevator
2 aileron
bunch of flap... 2 very strong or 4 not so.

Just make sure you loktite the servo arm screws
amazing flight with one arm off an aileron - this on a 50cc MX
you wanna see an aileron flutter - try it

savox is ok
either futaba or hitex has a smaller screw diameter - which i do not like even though the servo is good quality

Savox serves weren't the problem ones, Sandy. The bad ones were HD Power. >:( >: >:(
I have Savox's in my turbine.

Using Hitec 645's in the Dauntless.

Sorry Steve, I thought is was the Savox's that caught fire....I'll look at the Hitec fur sure....

Tah Dah Here is the bottom of the plane with THE LAST OF THE STRINGERS ON THE FUSE!!! :Raa Raa :Thank You Loyal Fans   All 57 freaking stringers, each one put through the stripper to cut them down in the right place, each one cut from a pine board,  :'(, each one.....Oh! I can't go on  :wallbash :wallbash :dead_horse :shots
Now look at the plans and try and figure out how and where he sheeted the bottom, then the ventral...

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always locktite my arms Brian............learned the hard way  >:(

of course I've been known to locktite my fingers as well  ::) and toes once, but it's better we don't go into THAT one. >:(

Incredible Sandy. You have almost 32,000 views for this build!!

:master :master

Bruce

administrator wrote on Nov 19^th, 2016 at 9:20pm:

Incredible Sandy. You have almost 32,000 views for this build!! :master :master Bruce

mostly mine Bruce, I look at it 177 times a day to raise the count....plus it's taking so darn long, and I know the doubters are keeping track to see when I quit.

Thunderbolt has 645's, and they are on their way. Thank you Steve, and Santa too.... :master

Elevator push rods,  [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] Rudder cable tubes  :thinking and since I know the size of the servos Santa is bringing, I put the servo rails in as well....I put them just under/behind the wing hold down plate in case I have to use space for the interior....
Get some 3/32 sheet and finish the bottom and tail of the fuse..

All this so I can put off working with the ribs for the center section. Combination of my landings, heavy plane and our runways dictate reinforced landing gear, so some ribs are being laminated with CF......and I hate that stuff... :excited 
But, big fan to outside going, shop vac under the saw, twin filtered face mask....

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nice rods   ::)

Yak Man wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2016 at 9:13pm:

nice rods   ::)

Why thank you kind sir. I'm sure there is some kind of psychological reason behind 5 rods in my fuse, but I will leave THAT discussion for those even more twisted than I... :popcorn

Wing Fairing is MUCH too freaking large...did a mock up and Holy Petutes  :Ahhhh

Not a Hurricane anywhere with fairings like this.....

The real one pales by comparison..

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Wing fillets are hard to do.  Just don't look directly at it for too long! [smiley=laugh.gif]

:Scratch Building

OK, ribs for the center section are ready........#3 is going to be doubled to add strength for the landing gear - doubler is that little sub rib....
think I might drill everything and use the wing jig...

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Progress, Sandy!! Looking good. That is going to be a beautiful plane.

I used to do that "gluing wood together" thing but found it cut into my rum savoring time too much so now I take the easy route and just stick assorted parts together.  ;D ;D ;D

I find that I'm so intent in relieving stress, following doctors advice from my post on "General" that even using rye instead of rum my assorted parts get stuck in some verrrry strange places..

Fingers wrote on Dec 18^th, 2016 at 1:46pm:

OK, ribs for the center section are ready........#3 is going to be doubled to add strength for the landing gear - doubler is that little sub rib.... think I might drill everything and use the wing jig...

Those spars are a tad in the short side.

al wrote on Dec 20^th, 2016 at 9:36am:

Fingers wrote on Dec 18th, 2016 at 1:46pm: OK, ribs for the center section are ready........#3 is going to be doubled to add strength for the landing gear - doubler is that little sub rib.... think I might drill everything and use the wing jig... Those spars are a tad in the short side.

yup, good catch...

Tried to fit everything on the wing jig - pretty awkward so I'll build on the board.  >:(
Roughed up the center, Chinese Fire Drill. This will be an exercise in whaddoIgluefirst?  :-?

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OK, now I'm committed, or at least should be committed. :timetobuild Center ribs glued in place. Roy has a lot of spars and sub spars, some on top, some underneath, so each rib will have to be looked at carefully to decide what/when.  :( Center rib (1), and 2 ribs on either side don't have flaps, so they are stock. From here on, each set of ribs has to have the flap drawn on it and partially cut so the piece can be removed.
Because they are split flaps, they hang down under the wing without being seen on top, but the flaps have to be built in so the rib is complete for the top sheeting to be done  :huhsign, then the piece removed. Plus, Roy designed the flaps about 30% too large in area so I have to redo his drawings on the plans....rib by rib  :wallbash

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I'm dreaming of a Hurricane
Just like the one I'd like to fly.........
It is made all    of wood
From plans I don't read good
Maybe someday will reach the skyyyyyyyyyyy

Center section partially assembled, so I stuck the fuse on it so I could dream a bit......Ribs 1, 2 and 3 (both sides) are on now; if I put 2 #4 ribs on either side (widening the span by about 3 inches, I could maybe come up with a way to get a 3 piece wing.............mmmmmmmmmmmmmm :-/ :-?

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Looking good.

Couple of gear mounts cut out. Plans call for 3/8 x 1/2 maple rails, but I figured with my landings I'd split a rail eventually. 1/4 aircraft ply laminated with 1/8 aircraft ply.

I also left the outer end of the ply in one piece  :huhsign   might be a bit stronger. I still have to cut this inner end to fit the ribs 4 and 5, and the leading edge. One of these you need the ribs to cut the rails, but you need the rails to put the ribs in... :-[

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Ribs 1 - 4 both sides in, about all I can do from this side. No, the front strip is NOT glued to the ribs and YES I know some ribs are bowed  >:( Lie ply does that sort of thing!!

I put one of two wing tubes I have in for a lookie. I figure, never having done tubes before, that the tube should likely go out to about rib 7 in the panels. If I use the 1 1/2" tube that is shown in the wing, at rib 7 it is only 3/16" from the bottom of the wing. If I use the smaller tube in the background, 1", then the bottom of the tube out at rib 7 is 3/4" from the bottom of the wing  :huhsign   Don't know if the 1" tube is large enough.... :-?

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interesting question
i am assuming one tube through boith wings?
1.  the 3/16 rib dimn is insuffiecient but the wing skin will make up for the insufficienc...but not in a heavy landing on one truck
2.  I like the 1 inch...but you must have a sleeve tube that is
a) a close fit in the rib hole; and
b) the 1 inch tube must fit the sleeve with a sliding close fit
c) if you havent contemplated the tube then wrap one from thin card and use glue with saran wrap etc..
3.  rib 7 sounds good.  assuming the rib spacing is what i think it is( about 2 inches).

Center section glued up - everything I can get to from the top except for the gear mounts and the sheeting. I'll take a good look at things, and if I can get the gear mounts in from below I'll sheet the top to make it more rigid. Then I can fit it to the fuse to make the fairings.

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Bottom rear of the fuse sheeted. Not happy  >:(. The 1/8 balsa sheeting was as hard as plywood, and was impervious to ammonia! Soaked a piece over night and it still wouldn't bend. So I had to resort to planking, and I never was any good at planking.  :wallbash

Fortunately the balsa is/was 1/8 so there is lots to sand off!  :-/ By the time I get it smooth I'll have 1/16 sheet and about 1 1/2 pound off the rear.... :HitPalm

At least it's almost to the point where I can fit the wing center to do fairings.... :Im Happy

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Looking good, Sandy. I know what you mean about planking. I've always struggled with it.

Making progress. I like it.

Ben Lann wrote on Jan 10^th, 2017 at 9:13am:

Making progress. I like it.

Thanks Ben. Slow but steady. I knew the front of the doghouse was wrong on Roy's drawings, much too wide. I emailed a fellow at Airframe Rebuilders in the UK. Asked him about the front and if he could get someone to measure it sometime. He told me they didn't have a Hurri in the shop right now, but did send this.....I should be able to plot out the correct width from here.......

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You'll need to make your own plans by the end of the build.  :)  Looks like you have made every effort to be as scale as possible.

Spoke to Roy about it, and in all fairness when he did his plans in '87 (re-drawn from Al Bently plans) no one had access to the real deal to check stuff. Unlikely he even saw a full size Hurricane, and the internet wasn't around to Google stuff!
Dog house is off, flaps are quite wrong, and wing fairings are much too large (look like they just copied the Spitfire fairings). When I get the one flight on it I'd like it to at least look right... :D

Fingers wrote on Jan 12^th, 2017 at 2:19pm:

When I get the one flight on it I'd like it to at least look right... :D

My approach exactly - with the way I fly, anything past the first flight is a bonus!  ;) ;) ;)

Ahhhh bless Google - you know there's an answer out there, even if you can't remember the question Steve...
Found this answer to the 3 piece wing dilemma.
I felt/feel the one tube, behind the thickest part of the wing, is fraught with problems. "Fraught" had to look that word up, according to Wikikikikipediatrican "Will jump up and bite you in the ass!!"  :o
Guy in MAN used this on a 30% Skyraider and it works..think I can build this in...

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Here is one of the modified gear mounts in place. It's keyed to the innermost rib, and to the end rib (that's rib 5, on the left, if you're keeping track). The inner ends of the legs will be trimmed a bit, and of course, there will be lots of triangle stock and ply strengtheners put in. We are considering MY landings here.  >:(
The plans seem to show ply gussets top-to-bottom along each gear leg, between the ribs, hard to explain might do a cardboard mock up to look at...
This all looks right, have to think on it a bit before I mix epoxy... :-?

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This is one incredible build you got going here Sandy.  Great work, huge attention to detail.
You got my vote for pilot's choose.. [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

Thank you kind sir! Just have to hope it doesn't weigh 35 pounds when done.. :'(

Forming the top center sheeting to the wing. Lots of Windex but still not glued yet; I want to make absodeliciously sure that everything is done that needs to be here. 65 pieces at this point, and that does not account for the flaps under the center.... :-/
Once upside down I set servo holes for the flaps, cut big frigging chunks out of some ribs so the gear will fit, sand this a tad, shape that a bit, curse and redo the other thing... ;D

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Sandy....you are putting in a heap of effort on this model, and the results are showing..  Good for you! 

Sydney Camm would be proud.

Thank you Mike. Hurricane, Spitfire, Camm, Mitchell - those guys had a way with aircraft!

Center sheeted on top. Rough sand only, leading edge trimmed a bit to fit the fuse. Took too long to do, but I had to be sure  :-?  Likely some detail will jump up and smite me when I get underneath......

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I always have trouble with wing hold down bolts. All 3 holes (top, bottom, plate in fuse) never line up. I'm always toddling at the field trying to get the bolts in... >:(

This time I drilled all 3 plates at the same time, while I could get at everything. If I'd had a 1/4" tube I'd have used that, but didn't, so I just cut a bunch of blocks, drilled, then stacked them on the bolts while I glued the second wing plate in. Both holes line up on all 3 plates.... :Raa Raa AND there is a solid hole through the wing.....

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Looking good Sandy.
Hope we'll see it this year.

That is a good idea and give some anti-compression strength.

Exactly what I was thinking Mark! Now I can tighten the bolts a bit more. And bonus, those  nylon bolts came back out after the glue dried!!!  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

One of those magic moments when you think something might actually be happening....big decision now is should I use blind nuts and bolts, or SM screws?

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OK, big important question - I need 5" wheels. Who/where?   I've seen them for up to $110 pair US$. Seems high.

Fingers wrote on Feb 6^th, 2017 at 4:10pm:

One of those magic moments when you think something might actually be happening....big decision now is should I use blind nuts and bolts, or SM screws?

those dreaded anchour nuts which tear out
aradite might help
http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XToshiba+MK6034GSX.TRS0&_nkw=Toshiba+MK6034GSX&_sacat=0

if you dont want to pay thunderbolt prices

Thanks Brian, but that's a link to a page of hard drives.....

Fingers wrote on Feb 10^th, 2017 at 11:27pm:

Thanks Brian, but that's a link to a page of hard drives.....

https://www.amazon.ca/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=araldite+epoxy&tag=googcana-20&index=aps&hvadid=145035927289&hvpos=1t3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8678495998293036257&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001385&hvtargid=kwd-1059810142&ref=pd_sl_9t3h1qhu1u_e

my hard drive died
:-/


this is what we used in the aircraft inductry in England in the 15th Century.
I suspect that it is far superior to
http://www.thunderboltrc.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=113_241&products_id=1704&zenid=nAmNvHyxhbcK8p,C6uUhQ0

someone needs to run a test
Al?

I shop at sdshobby. They have a 5in for $12us

http://www.sdshobby.com/rc-airplane-rc-airplane-pu-wheel-with-cnc-aluminum-hub-5-0-d127-x-h46-x-5mm-four-screws.html

Site a little slow to navigate but I have had good service with them

Thanks Mark...give them a try I guess.
Brian, a lot of us have been using Hysol for a long time, don't know who might do a comparison test, especially since we use it on critical places...

You should have no issues. I did see a few types of 5in wheels. I spent a few hundred there today myself.
Also, Thunderboltrc has 3/4 oz fiberglass cloth in 5 yard rolls. 20% off. I picked up a few rolls along with cm6 spark plugs that were on sale.

I did the wheel thing, thanks.

I ordered Thunderbolt's 3/4 cloth a while back. Good stuff

WELL, I suppose it's always better to SNAFU by adding stuff that needn't be there, instead of taking stuff off that has to be there!!  >:(
Was talking to Roy about the wing fairing and he noted my wonderful planking job on the bottom. He sent me a pic of his fuse and it's not planked. He said the extra weight could add up to a pound by the time everything was balanced.....crap so I'm in the process of taking the planking off  :-/
Easy fix, just stupid  :'(  :wallbash :dead_horse :crappyday :shots :swear  So the learning process continues...

And some more humour -  >:( 

In order to go on with the wing section I need to mount the gear. To mount the gear I need some 5" wheels for alignment.
According to EMS Express tracing, my wheels are somewhere between DONGGUANWULIUFENJU and my place  :o soooooooo I made some 5" wheels. While they'd be a tad rough on pavement, should be fine on grass. Plus, they'll work for aligning the gear and the wheel well liners......
After all, you only use them to get IN the air, then when landing - only 5% of the time.... ;)

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I am sadly disappointed that the manufacturers name (Woodyear) is not visible in your photo's. Please correct immediately. :D

So sorry, wheels were mis mounted. Both have Woodyear away from the camera. Will be rectified fifth with....

(that's a bit longer than forth with)

:party :Fun_bat

Jumpin' juniper fir sure Glen, it wood be yew making fun of my wheels! But oaky dokey, I went to take them off the axles to spruce them up, did my due diligence and found they should be Donelopped (I think that is the same as "Was circumcised"), not Woodyear or BF Woodrich.  :-*  Wasn't aware the Brits were overly concerned about that stuff, but.......
So poopy.

As an aside, wooden you know it, I now have a copy of the manual for proper application of Hurricane colours and markings. Copies available  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

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Wheel wells in production. 5.5" OD tube. When balsa comes off it will spring back out a bit and should be easy to fit in the wells.
As an aside, the Hurricane didn't have the wells sheeted as close as we tend to do, too much junk in there that had to be worked on...We like to keep the junk, like mud and grass, out of our wells...

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Surprised the wheels haven't arrived. I mine arrived last Friday. Thought we ordered the same day.

Marc

Yeh Marc, but you spent a lot more than I did....

Wheels came today Marc, so onward and upward....
Interesting (to me) little tidbit - I was wondering, way ahead of time, about paint schemes for this beast. Likely be a later plane so the Dark Green and medium Sea Grey seems like a fit ( and different from all the Sewage and Silage ) planes at our field.  THEN I began to wonder about "A" and "B" schemes, and how the two patterns worked.
Come to find out, on Hurricanes at least, the "B" pattern was dropped in January '41, so that makes things easier....

Scary moment, but parts sitting up on gear! Still require copious quantities of epoxy on the blind nuts, cause once things are buttoned up, they are buttoned up! On this part of the wing, still need inner flaps and servo, air tank, plumbing, and start the mechanical structure for the 3 piece wing...then sheet bottom. But in the interim, I can use this much for the wing fairings....

I have a blog site set up for the naysayers to post their ruminations on me and my landing gear experiences.....
www.ireallydontgiveapoopingdump.org ;   :moon :egyptian :Thank You Loyal Fans

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That's progress, Sandy! Looks great standing up on her own.

Makes me keen to get back to work - been wanting to do a road trip all winter. May have to head to island tomorrow for paint.

Head to Cdn Tire for paint Steve. With gas you don't need special stuff, rattle cans will work fine. Take something with you to match the can cover - close enough..?

And now there's an engine for the Hurricane and Spit...

http://www.pace-engines.com/index.php?ID=55

All Right now!! I'm back.  :Thank You Loyal Fans  Glen is taking odds on how long I keep at it this time...

Starting to fit the 1/32 ply saddles. Because of the steep curve at the front, I'm wetting and clamping before gluing...
These are Roy's saddles, and I think they are way too large for a Hurricane. He put what looks like Spitfire saddles on the plane. As best I can work from his plans these things are much too wide, but they fit the wing trailing edge and fuse so I have to go with them for a while. I guess I don't have the imagination to make the mod off the plane, so once these two pieces are on, I'll flip the fuse and work from that side. Hopefully I can adjust the curve from fuse to wing so it won't look too Spittish (!). Sorry Mike, nothing against Spit's but......well, you know.. :TrashTalk
Also, he has the front of the saddle, from the middle clamp to the front, filled with body fill! Now I'm not as familiar with the stuff as maybe Todd is, but that stuff is heavy!  >:( Gonna have to figure out a better way to fill the curve....

Can you say microballoons and epoxy?  ;)

Since the top down view of Roy's plan seems close, the problem, as I see it, is in the concave of the saddle. Spit's had big sweeping shallow curves while Hurri's came more down then bent to the wing... :huhsign
Guess I'm going to just recurve the sheet metal....you can see (hopefully) what I'm going to sand out of the gussets that form the curve. The back gusset, in the second photo, has already got the steeper curve. The one I show yet to be sanded goes at former 5 where I have it placed for show and tell, then there's another at 4. From the back, up to 4 is sheeting, then Roy gets to body fill/micro balloon stuffy.
Maybe, with the right soft 1/16 sheeting, I can get it to bend enough to use it instead of bf/mb. At least I can fill the space with 1/4 stock as filler  :wallbash :timetobuild

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OK! The template from the plans isn't quite right, but once I get the bend set in I can trim and poke and prod and rebend  :dead_horse and get something close to what I want. What isn't apparent from the template was I think the top of this sheet has to be curved at the back end, to allow wrapping around the bottom of the fuse.  :huhsign again!
Nothing glued. Just have to get a curve in the pieces so I can start fitting.
Fiddledit and Fuddleduddle. :swear :WhatWasThat
Don't know if it's obvious, but the faring does have a much sharper curve than the spit..I hope

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Quote:

Starting to fit the 1/32 ply saddles. Because of the steep curve at the front, I'm wetting and clamping before gluing... These are Roy's saddles, and I think they are way too large for a Hurricane. He put what looks like Spitfire saddles on the plane. As best I can work from his plans these things are much too wide, but they fit the wing trailing edge and fuse so I have to go with them for a while. I guess I don't have the imagination to make the mod off the plane, so once these two pieces are on, I'll flip the fuse and work from that side. Hopefully I can adjust the curve from fuse to wing so it won't look too Spittish (!). Sorry Mike, nothing against Spit's but......well, you know.. Trash Talk

No worries.  Good on you for noticing the inaccuracy.  Attention to detail is a good thing.

OPINION TIME!!!!!!!!!
Not that I'm going to necessarily take anyone's opinion, but.....
pic 1 and 2 show the curve of the saddle on a real honest to goodyness Hurricane.... and pic 3 is the ply base for the saddle from the plans..The ply seat that is there is per plan, the black line is what, to me, looks gooder.....ideas?  :helpMe :Anyone :Thanks

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The black line does look "gooder" sandy, except I believe you've swept it out too far at the rear, like the spit.  Closer to the fuse side in the rear is my vote.

Thanks Al, and I agree, almost.  :-/ Unfortunately, the back of the wing is set up for this wider fairing. Tip of the fair meets the end of the flat on the trailing edge. To me, the only way is to keep the "plan view", which seems to match top down down 3 views I have.
Making the concave more caver (?) with the narrower base up front, shallow fair down back........
OR I can rebuild the back of the wing LOLOLOL  >:(

Does any of that make sense??? :o

Just eyeball it and do what looks best.  We won't tell.

Kinda hard to judge from the photo. But looking at the real vs model pics, I think the rear filet needs to ride higher on the fuse. This would also lessen the sharpness of the curve into the wing.

M

Yup and Yup.
Looking at the thing, I might be able to move the back in a bit like Al suggests.....and yes, might be able to pick the back of the fillet up a bit...
:DSNAFU >:(

OK! I can fix the trailing edge of the wing, not too bad there, so I did cut the whole seat back in a bit, to make it NOT fair out so far ala Spit. (Dunno what this world is coming to where I actually listen to Eastman's ideas OMG!)  ;D
Marc, I checked other views I have (why do they so seldom take pics of the right side of the aircraft???) That does seem to be where the filet rides, and where it ends. There's a hatch on the right side, and the bottom of the filet stops about right relative to the hatch...the sweep up has to stop before the fabric  :-/
I'm stuck now, so this is what It will be..taking material off is always easier than putting material back on...only Mike, now Marc, and I will ever question those fairings, and we know we're correct.  Pic attached, don't know if clearly shows the change...

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This is what I did, so this is correct. Standard military FUBAR.
If that sounds a bit rigid, it's because the other side is pretty close to this side  >:( so we takes it.
Plans show for the front to be filled with body putty, and Glen has suggested epoxy and micro balloons. I like the mb idea, but first will fill some of the area with triangle stock...just because balsa is lighter than epoxy... :-/

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looking good sandy.

OK! Three piece wing needs a wing tube! Well there is another way, but I'm not sure about the engineering involved.  :-/
I acquired a 1" diam (that's 2.54cm to you modern guys) CF tube, courtesy of the generosity of Mrs. Miller, whose pink shower curtains now lay on the bathroom floor beside the tub. Thank you GWS!  :Raa Raa
A one inch tube requires a socket, into through witch  :o one slides the tube whence assembling the pieces of subject wing. Mrs. Miller's Mr. Miller and I measured the wing, from rib 7 through to rib 7, at 44 inches. A cursory trip through the web/net/google/yahoo leads me to belive no-one sells sockets at 44 inches. And if they did the cost of getting it here would be yuge, bigly, and ginormous.
Mr. Cool talked me through the process: secure CF tube; wrap said CF tube with 2 layers of wax paper; wrap fiber glass cloth around the tube with lots of epoxy/resin. Once cured, remove CF tube from wax paper; remove wax paper from inside the fiber glass socket. EASY  ;D ::)
Removing tube wasn't bad. Removing wax paper from INSIDE the new socket, another story....

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The wax paper removal is always the fun part. The tube looks great! I hope I didn't steer you wrong with the two raps.  That's what I always did and it worked great.

Don't you just love it when something comes out right??? I think I would, if that ever happened  :'(.

Actually, the wing tube socket did just that!! Tube slid out of the socket/wax paper thingy with little effort. Then used long needle nose pliers to get in the tube a bit and untwist the WP wrap stuck to the resin inside.....Unfortunately this technique only goes so far, and that's not as far as the other end of the tube. So, to make it easier, almost easy, I knew the lengths I needed for the tube - center and 2 outside wing panels. Cut the socket into three, and unwound the WP wrap in three different tubes.  :huhsign
And, dare I say AND (!!!) the tube slides through the sockets as slick as **** through a goose. :D No play, but no push either....This might work.  Now I'll slide the sockets back on the tube and clean up the rough stuff, but inside fits.  :Raa Raa
Thank you Al kind sir.

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There you go Sandy, looks usable.
BTW, I thought we weren't going to discuss where the cf rod came from  ::)

Don't see any discussion. Monologue maybe, discussion no.

Besides, Mrs. Miller doesn't read these pages does she? Ipso, not going to see where the shower curtain rod went... :Fun_bat

Sandy after many years of building high power rockets with composite materials; including making tubes 1.5 to 4 inches in diameter, vacuum bagging & laminating with fiber glass, Kevlar (bugger to work with BTW) and carbon fiber. Wax paper is the not a great release material, parchment paper and car wax are the most economical and effective materials I found. Parchment paper has a silicone component that prevents resin from curing to it. Better material than wax paper to put on bench as a barrier when using epoxy too.
Getting a cured tube off a composite mandrel can be a task, certainly harder that using an aluminum mandrel that can be thrown in the freezer and the difference in contraction between the two materials usually makes removal from the mandrel a heck of a lot easier!

Thanks Greg. All good info. This is really what this build is about - new ideas. I'm sure some guys newer to the hobby read my prolonged nattering and think "jeez do they really do that kind of thing?"
Course, others read it and think "wish the bugger would shut up and finish the darn plane.."
>:(

K! Tube slid in the center section "just" to be sure it fits and surely does. Other two tubes will be build into the outer panels as they are built. I "think"  :-? it's wise to have this center part ready to go so everything can be lined up and true.....
The external diameter of the socket is 1.02", so the cloth and resin aren't very thick at all. But that .02" is more than the tolerances in my set of Forstner bits. SO..
Dug in my father's old tool box and found his 1940's era hole cutter. Fully adjustable, cutter from a metal lathe, fits a pillar drill..so I'm going to make a bunch of doublers for either side of the ribs. Hole will be just large enough to take the socket, one either side of each rib..1/8 ply should do the job..

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I found running the cutter backwards works best. Forwards it just digs in ....
Nice work sandy... maybe flitetest will have a hurri soon. Then off to dollarama... :-?y

Thanks Brian, I'll give the backwards a try.. :)

But there's still no hurry for the Hurri...

Never heard about turning an adjustable circle cutter backwards. I use the same cutter to cut plywood for round bulkheads using a large drill press turning at a moderate rpm rate and have not had an issues with the cutter digging in so long as the material being cut is securely held down. If the material being cut is not big enough to clamp to the drill press table I have used a piece of laminate floor as a backer/holder and stuck the material to be cut to this, using 2 sided carpet tape. It will usually hold onto plywood long enough to cut the circle but it sticks to the laminate floor piece or any smooth surface material like sh*t to a wool blanket :)

Greg..... ;)

Dilemma time: If you look at the picture of the socket tube in the center section, you can see above the tube another set of holes through the ribs. Now those holes are closer to the center of lift of the foil. It would be nice to have the wing tube located in those holes, further forward. But, as you can see, the wheels block off anything going through those holes.
If I use those holes, My wing tube only grabs 2 ribs, about 7 inches, in the center section. Using the holes I show, I can run the tube all the way through.
So question: Can I get away with the front holes (7") either side, or am I better using the back holes and being behind the center of force..................
:popcorn :popcorn :popcorn :popcorn :popcorn :popcorn :popcorn :popcorn :dead_horse

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Easy peazy.....making the doubler disks will be piece of cake...and not a sign of "dig in"!
Now make a bunch of them, and shape them ti fit the rib. I think Hysol is the adhesive of choice

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Fingers wrote on Dec 16^th, 2017 at 4:09pm:

Easy peazy.....making the doubler disks will be piece of cake...and not a sign of "dig in"! Now make a bunch of them, and shape them ti fit the rib. I think Hysol is the adhesive of choice

haha Hysol is the only thing I recognize from the past 10 posts...  :Anyone well that and curtain rod.  :ShowerSurprise  Keep up the great work Sandy, I am still enjoying the thread after 5 years and counting!  :popcorn

To quote the very first comment on this thread

"OK guys, here we go, slowly, deathly slowly, snore"  >:(

u ben warned!!

Another group of informed builders (and Colin) suggested I use two tubes in both sets of rib holes. More than enough to take any strain from the weight...good anti rotation pins front and back, lag bolt holding things together.  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

Fingers wrote on Dec 18^th, 2017 at 2:58pm:

To quote the very first comment on this thread "OK guys, here we go, slowly, deathly slowly, snore"  >:( u ben warned!! Another group of informed builders (and Colin) suggested I use two tubes in both sets of rib holes. More than enough to take any strain from the weight...good anti rotation pins front and back, lag bolt holding things together.  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

Yes Sandy I am still hurt you didn't respond to my well articulated facebook jab  ;D

Your zinger zinged right by Ben.  lol  Or he ignored it,  take your pick.

So very sorry Ben. Was there a well articulated FB jab? Don't know quite how I missed it since articulation is not high on the list of so many posters to that genre, including myself.  :-? "Well articulated" should jump right off the screen!! :-/
Usually you're going on and on about  "The Glorious Game" or "Delightful Game" or how Liverpool trounced Manchester, or else F1 is in play......my feeble mind tends to glaze over when those topics pop up so I would n't recognize any jab, articulated or not.....

Fingers wrote on Dec 20^th, 2017 at 10:01pm:

So very sorry Ben. Was there a well articulated FB jab? Don't know quite how I missed it since articulation is not high on the list of so many posters to that genre, including myself.  :-? "Well articulated" should jump right off the screen!! :-/ Usually you're going on and on about  "The Glorious Game" or "Delightful Game" or how Liverpool trounced Manchester, or else F1 is in play......my feeble mind tends to glaze over when those topics pop up so I would n't recognize any jab, articulated or not.....

I'll forgive you this time  :) And no Liverpool doesn't ever beat United.

Just Shelburne and Yarmouth eh?

Don't think they have a team.

Field sports aside, after dinking around with some indoor foam meat trays, I'm back at the wing. (bout freakin' time the chorus mutters). :WhatWasThat
Cut out a buncha circles, the diameter of the socket tube. The dire consequences predicted by Mr. Hatchett happened not - neat circles. Also, I managed to avoid hitting myself with the bar of the cutter whilst it spun. To support both claims, I present a pic of the panel from which I cut the circles. Notice, no ripping around the holes, and no blood. The other side of the panel is classified and restricted! The panel will now be cut into the requesite 36 squares which can be customized according to what I need where I need them.
As a complete aside, this process created 36 Tuits of 1/8 lite ply, each with a small hole centered; diam about 1.025". Some I will keep for obvious reasons, but there are a few available to members. First come first serve - extremely valuable item for your shop! :dead_horse

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Thats a lot of round tuit's ::)

Yes it is. I need to save a bunch of them, but there will be some available to others with the same problem... :-?

I just got a fresh supply of round tuit's from Hobby King. They were on sale so I'm good. 8-)

China hobby Line usually has a good price as well..

The concave isn't deep enough, or sharp enough, but it's what we get! Lot's of blending and sanding, but a start, or re-start.... >:(
Once the bottom of the wing is sheeted I can finish wrapping the curve under the fuse...Plans show a LOT of body fill, which I think can be replaced with balsa block..

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Now I have to start thinking (?) in 3D.  :helpMe The outer rib gets jigged up 5" on the front spar, to account for the 6 1/5 deg dihedral. But the back of the end rib gets twisted up to give 2 deg washout.
So best to lay the spars and get the washout in, then block up the panel to get the inner rib leaned in to 6 1/2 deg..  :huhsign And sometime  those ply dihedral braces will be cut away from the center (it's part of the one piece wing scenario).
The more I fiddle with those those thin ply pieces the more I'm sure they aren't right. The cuts in those braces tilt rib #6 the wrong way. Since they really only apply to the one l piece wing I might just take them out..
You can't relly see it, but the back spar has to be re-positioned and the ribs modified. Roy has the spar set to make the flaps 5 inches at the center section, should be 3 inches. So the spar has to be swept back to a uniform 3" from TE.

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OK. Got thinking about using an aluminum blade spar in the wing, like they do in Europe, so Glen dug through his supply and found me 2 nice pieces which Mr. Cool then helped me shape sp I now have pieces 14 1/4" long by 1 inch deep. Then my mind not only wandered, but disappeared totally for a while. Realized that the blade would stick out either side of the wing center section by 10" each side. Potential for disaster is yuge. So worked out a way to make the spar removable from both sides.
Also, finally gave up idea of making the break at the scale location. My chances of building something that would key around the landing gear plates is less than nil. So break moves out 1 rib to non scale location.  :( SNAFU.
I have to have the outer wing panel flat on the board so I can work on the washout, plus I have to have it built kind of attached to the center section or I'll never get it aligned.
SO, I made a jig that jacks up one end of the center section 2 1/4". The other end of the center will  then become square to the table ( see right angle). The jig keeps everything level front to back (measured yea!!).
I made boxes for the two aluminum spars, each is 14 1/4 inches long. The boxes, as you will see some year, carry the spar, and are glued into the outer panels and center.
Skip down a few sections to see that in action.

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Next step. Finished what was required on the center section, including adding the left and right outer panels to just past the gear. The dihedral break is now included in the center section.  >:(
I left the center in place and made a new rib for the end of the outer panel, made antirotation pins, and started the right outer panel from there.  :huhsign
Roy says this plane NEEDS washout or it's prone to falling from the sky  :-/ (now I find out) at slower speeds, like when I'm landing.  So center section level, making new inside rib level. Bottom spar laid down, outer rib jigged and frigged to put 2 deg washout in...that's 3/16 inch. Starting to lay ribs in, from the outer end towards the center. Notice the wax paper between the new rib and the center section. Otherwise I'd just wind up gluing the out panel to the center blah blah blah. :HitPalm
The blue items are small welders magnets - love them. They keep things like ribs vertical, and if you use 2 per rib, you can hold the rib on the bottom spar nice and snug while the glue dries....$10 at PA for 8 of them...

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How wide are the weld magnets? Looks like a good tool.

Marc, the blue ones are 2 x 2.5. In the background is a red one 4 x 4. I find them great little items. Have some weight, but aren't heavy.
Welder's Room at PA.

Don't ya just hate it when you find an error and it's not your own... >:( The laser cut pieces don't fit each other.... :huhsign
Bottom of the Rudder Post is about 1/4" longer than the trailing edge pieces make up to. Was noticed 3 years ago when assembled, but didn't make a heap until the anti spin sub fin is put on - the slope was way off.
Glued on a piece; lots of sanding; some filling; slope still not really right so needs some more sanding but closer...almost there boss.

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Your getting there Sandy.  Looking good!

Fix looks good

OK, back to the spars!!! I'm tired of the 3 piece wing saga, so I'm sure you are too. I assured myself there was enough clearance for the spar box outside of rib 7, so onward.
Made a new end rib for the center, so now the spar box is fit in, cut at the joint where the panel meets the center. The aluminum blade slides in and out easily. I'll make shear webs to fit between the box and the HW spars on the outer panels, and plywood gussets to fit around the box at the 3 ribs.
In the center, plywood gussets and triangular stock around everything.
Once the top HW spar and everything else is glued in, where it sits, I'll check the washout measurement again and sheet the top of the wing.
Then flip and do other side.
This  :swear has had me stalled for over a year. Tons of ideas but no one has done the 3 piece with this plane. Some other outside stuff got fixed in early March so maybe the brain will function again.. >:(

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And Voila (that's French for "It's friggin' well about time") I have a wing panel up in the air. Haven't tried yet to take it off the center section, that's a challenge for another day  :D
I'll take it off and re-jig it. As soon as I get my leading edge material I can put that on and sheet the top. Ton's of stuff to do from unber neath. While I'm doing that, I can jig up the center section the other way, and repeat for the left wing panel......

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Nothing glued, just cut first piece of sheeting for angle, and laid another to take a look. Starting to almost look like something familiar, but been sooooo long.. :-[
Can't remember what part of a ship I'm working on.
I will lay the pieces out and glue them into a single sheet. PVA glue, lots of plastic tape to hold things together...will make for a nice hull.  :)

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Rough cut some sheeting, then taped them all together. Laid them out upside down, and glued all the seams with PVA. Always thought that trailing edge was fragile, so after I "banged" it,  :'(,  I laid a piece of CF strip along it.
I removed the center section so I could overlap the edges, re-checked the washout jigging, and glued on top sheeting for one panel. Not having the requisite bean bags, I used about 30 old MAN magazines for weight. Result not too awful. Panel still slides on the spar to the center, AND slides back off  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]. I realize the pic shows the panel NOT tight against the center...with nothing to shove on from the outer end I didn't push it too hard.
I do know the Vegas odds for me ever getting this far were in the area of 4,372 to 1. Mr. Mosher, who had some faith in me, wins based on his wager... :Raa Raa :Thank You Loyal Fans.  Odds for the next 3 sides go up exponentially..

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Looks like a wing!  Good job!

Thanks Ben. About 2/3 of a wing counting the center panel...Once I decided on the "how", doing isn't too bad.

No Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore. And no, this thing isn't a kit.  :-/

Attached pic is a wing tip; there are 2 of them, and amazingly they are both 1.40 oz.  :egyptian

Also attached pic, each tip is 6 layers, to be glued and shaped. 6 x 1/4" = 1 1/2 inches. End of wing panel = 1 10/16". So I have to thin down the sheeting at the tip, or add to the pieces
So, since I'm thickening the assorted pieces to match the end of the panel, I might as well make the thickener out of plywood to strengthen the tip, because this stuff is soft.
:wallbash
On the bright side, this does give lots of room to remove some material from the middle sheets; all in the interest of weight reduction (or at least offset the plywood).

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OK, obviously there is a centre section missing here. But, outer panels sheeted on top, ailerons need cap stripping on top etc etc etc. Once the aileron shape is final I can sand and gouge and plane the tips, then attach them. Leading edge of entire wing needs sanding, gouging, planing....
But underneath - servos, servos and more servos. I think it's best to have servo on each flap section..
each outer panel will have aileron servo and flap servo, centre section will have 2 flap servos...SBUS here we come.
Trick will be to get the 4 flap servos reasonably close in action.
Almost starting to begin to look like something, just not sure what.
I'm going to use robart hinge pins so it's not a problem, but plans show ailerons top hinged with dubro pinned flat hinges, but the wing has a HW spar. Not sure how to slit the HW.

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With a great planes hinge slotting machine :
https://www.greatplanes.com/accys/gpmr4010.php

Yup, that'll work....or my version of the same thing...

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And you guys think I'M nuts..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c47kn_Y4y8A&feature=share

Holy smackin' crud Batman.

So awesome and so sad at the same time 😳

Fingers wrote on Jun 9^th, 2018 at 12:18pm:

And you guys think I'M nuts.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c47kn_Y4y8A&feature=share Holy smackin' crud Batman.

This is another nice one from the guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiEiMoQWygg

And here i think my SBach scheme is too hard to replace so I'm thinking of just going straight lines.... >:(

Love to know what he uses for masking tape

Fingers wrote on Jun 10^th, 2018 at 1:14pm:

And here i think my SBach scheme is too hard to replace so I'm thinking of just going straight lines.... >:( Love to know what he uses for masking tape

I agree with you.  Although, I am curious how much is down to technique.  The lettering was so crisp.

Sigh snore, back at it..... :WhatWasThat :Naaah
Flap time. 3 panels each side, plans show 2 but with the 3 piece wing the main flap is split. So 3/32 balsa laminated between 2 pieces 1/64 ply. These raw pieces have no flex. Next I'll cover the flaps with .75oz glass cloth, inside and out, THEN I'll put the ribs on, 20 odd ribs. Per side.

Doing it this way because the thought of trying to glass around and over a bunch of ribs...well I don't have a hope in hell to get that right.

3 servos for the flaps - 1 center and 1 each panel.

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And here are a bunch of ribs sandwiched in a ply jig. Easy to sand on the vertical sander so they're all the same. If I run out can easily sand some more..

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OK. Flaps sections are hinged. Was going to use Robart hinge pins but I never have good luck with those, so Dubro HD it is.
Flaps are ribbed and hinged and reliefs for the hinges are on the wing panels. I guess a servo in each outer panel, and I have a 1/4 scale servo for the center - 3 pieces can run from 1 servo.

Also, I cut out 2 stimulated wheel covers for fitting. I don't know if I'll leave the piece that runs off at 60 deg and covers a drag link on the real plane. By reports it is fiddley to get hinged right so if I can't come up with the geometry I'll take that piece off. The actual flaps will be made from either 1/66 aluminium or heavy lithoplate.

The "large" Robart air tank is large. No where to fit the thing. Courtesy of my cupboard, and Mr. Cool, found my self with 2 small tanks. Easy fiddledit in the wing.
Since I won't be contesting this thing  :woooweee  with all the manouvers like "gear down slow pass" "gear down try again" I only need air for gear up or "gear down".

I think I can run the flaps from the 1 Hitec HD servo (250 oz/in),  either torque rods with universal joint of some kind or CF sheet tongues.

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Waiting for steering arms and 3/32 rod for torque rod on the flaps.  :WhatWasThat
So I used a piece of clear plastic sheet and made a sort of see-through template of the front sheeting piece around the gear.  :huhsign Some fiddling to make the fit right and I'll glue a second sheet to this, then cut the wheel wheel out. Once I know where that is fur sure I'll make liners for the well. Real plane didn't line the well, but with our dirty fields I think it's better to do it.
ANNND once the wells are cut out the wheel covers can be made....bit oversize.

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Looking good Sandy!
Sounds like my project; work a while, stop because I need a part, order part, spend money, rinse and repeat.

Made up the forward sheet for the bottom center. The holes will be enlarged later. In the shot of the single gear, right at the rear bolt is the break in the Hurricane wing. Not where I'm breaking my wing I might add...I'm out 1 bay.  :huhsign
But, with no break at the right place, I get a compound curve in the sheeting. Pffffft. Right now the sheeting is pinned and lying there with ammonia and lots of weight to try and bend the sheet around...

If you look closely at the "bottom sheet" you can see the outline of the wheel cover.

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And here are dummy covers lying in place for "gotta see this" purposes. Covers will be made of either litho or flashing material from my local home improvement depot...With a reflex in the covers they should close up flush to the surface  :popcorn
I have a small piece of aluminum that would make 1 set of standoffs, need to \scrounge another

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OK, I've thought on this for a while (yes Glen, a looong time) :tongueout. Going to the 3 piece wing complicated the flaps a lot. What had been 4 flap panels has become 5, with 3 of them in the center section. I could have used 5 servos but didn't have the $$$$ so I'm trying this.
Mocked up so we can see it, and think about it. Yes Al,  it's likely over thought and over engineered  :gossip. Now for the pundits to kick in  :Anyone.
All the ribs in the center section have a 1 5/8" hole, and those holes are lined up. I made a bunch of 1 5/8" ply disks, cut some copper tubing to act as bushings (I wanted bearings but Al said no  [smiley=cry.gif]). I threaded the 5/32 rod, five nylon 5/32 nose gear steering arms, and the ply disks into the right sequence, stuck the disks into the rib holes, and Voila as the French say. I have a single torque rod, actuated by a 1/4 scale servo in there that I have to get mounted so it's removable, and the 1 servo will run the 5 flap pieces.
The outer wing panels each have their own servo.
Have at it guys.

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Feeling bit off today, so tried another item.....Kinda satisfying to see something covered, but not sure this is the correct fabric.
This is Super Coverite, and I'm wondering if it might be "too" finished for the Hurricane fabric. I know Phil Clark says that you shouldn't really see the grain of the fabric after the plane is painted. This stuff will certainly ensure that!
Iron on fabrics is getting hard to find since the demise of Solartex. What was Oracoat is available again from some places.

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Well, it's only been 8 or 9 months.....what's the hurry?

All that aside, I'm back at it. Made a few decisions that might let me finish this thing. Firstly...

The Machine guns! Since this will be a MKIIc, it needs the huge honking machine guns off the wings. I spent a lot of time (way too much) trying to get info on the Hispano machine guns. I kinda wanted them to look kinda like they should (at 10 feet). I have the War Department Technical Manual for the guns; lots of pictures, lots of stuff, but didn't have dimensions, any. The Technical Manual tells me how to take the thing apart, oilk it. load it, sight it, but no dimensions. Finally, I got a nice note from the Curator of the Duxford museum, and he sent me a rough sketch of the barrel, with sizes. Off we go. A modeller from FB offered to make the guns, and sent me a very fine prototype so I ordered them, asking only that he make the gun an inch longer, on the back end. Package arrived, he added to inch in the wrong direction and over wrote the recoil springs......blah blah blah......' :wallbash  First pic is his prototype file.

Anyway, I sat down and made 4 machine guns. Certainly not perfect, but they are 10 foot stand off scale so they will work.......even have the mount figured out.

Bit of cleaning up, and the bases have to be painted yet, but ...

And yes, Glen has told me to stop dithering over tiny details (I think the word he used was obsessing)  :shots :dead_horse

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Having made the wing 3 pieces, with aluminum spar, I was left with how i was going to fix the outer panels so they wouldn't slide off. All the torsion and shear is taken by the spar, is just the slide off that's of concern..

Many different methods out there, but most of them involved something through the top of the wing. Then I found Merlyn Wing locks, on RCScaleBuilder site. They are used a lot on large sailplanes and do the job nicely. I was just getting into making them from the Tutorial page on the site, when lo and behold they popped up on the site's list of 3D Printer files.

Greg Hatt made some prototypes from the file, we looked at them and thought about it, and he made 4 locks from PETg. I guess this is one of the stronger plastics.

Bingo. Work right some nice, and the hole in underneath the wing. Run a bolt up with a ball driver and it's done. Loosen with the driver and if the bolt stays inside, use a magnet on a rod.

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Of course the leading edge on the wing has to be drilled for the cannons. And of course the leading edge isn't 90deg to the center line of the plane...it has a 4 deg sweep. >:(

I bored a small piece of pine with the .75" Forstner bit, with the pillar drill bed tilted 4deg.  :Thank You Loyal Fans Clamped to the LE, this "should"  :wallbash :dead_horse  point my cannons in the correct direction..

Of course the one I have poking here would  be inset about 1 1/4 inch

As usual, I'll think on this for a bit  ::)........before I bore into the wing..... :D

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OK, ignore the fact that wing is upside down in the fuse..... >:(  I just need a cradle to hold things while I took a look.... ;)

They came out better than I'd hoped, and using several references, totally TLAR. Since the cannons will be held in place by rare earth magnets in sockets behind the LE. they are removable for transport, plus I can work on maybe replacing them later.  ::)

Now I can put the retract lines on the gear, set up flap servos and sheet the bottom...then sand, and sand, and sand...

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Those look great Sandy!
I really like the rare earth magnet mount idea.
Worthy updates to the saga known as HurricaneMkII ;D

Greg

Thanks Greg. The magnet idea is Glen's, but despite that I think it has potential  ;D!. Yeah. The sage is close to becoming a legend, or old wives tale. Heard about, whispered about, but never seen.

Some of the guys say I'm obsessive, over think things, or CDO. Pfffffft.  :dead_horse

The cannons and the wing attachment were the big hurdles; perhaps, maybe, just might, there's chance..... ::)

And sometimes you do things just to see........

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Love the 20 mm canons; they are awesome!

Well done.

Thank you Mike..... I'd love to be able to line them up this way but it's tough. Think I'll settle for the TLAR method.  ::)

A word to anyone who ever contemplates a MKIIc  :D - decide BEFORE you start cutting stuff. Much easier to get holes bored at the proper angles and stuff.. >:(
I think this is rotated, and none of my utilities will fix it...

and excuse the shaky hands, still post time change  8-)

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This is all that's visible with the Merwyn Locks. Clean up the ends of the tubes...

A long ball driver will handle the bolts....might be nice to have a small electric screw driver

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Just planed the leading edge of one wing panel......does anyone need a bucket of tinder for starting fires??? ;D

This is the part of building I like the most!  >:(  Nothing compares to taking a 3 piece, 8 foot long, wing that was never intended to be 3 piece, and sanding all the pieces to try and make them match.  :'(
Leading edge is 2 inches thick in the center, 1/2 inch thick at the ends, with several tapers  :dead_horse. His design of the tips is basic at best; still may be able to saw these off and make new ones.... :shots
Oh well, sheeting is done   :Raa Raa    just have to make it blend... :-/
Hate the flaps  >:( may redo them.....

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