Ok guys, if you have the patience, here we go.... with my OC,and AADD and general terror of doing something wrong this might take a while.. :P

Retracting landing gear is installed (yes Glen, with all bolts tightened and Loktited - blue, not red, I might have to remove one some day).. lines are run to the top of the wing...

As you can see, there is plenty room IN the wing to put the air tank there.. are there any great unthought of reasons to not put it there??  While it's very light it does move some weight forward..

---

Sandy
Looks good, I can't see any issue with putting the tank in the wing, in fact with a little creative routing of the fill valve you might be able to fit the entire unit into the wing.

Had thought of that, lots of room for the valve and a small servo, but my big clumsy fingers (!) might find it a tight fit if I ever have to adjust, but should be able to do the adjusting before its fixed inside......can always try - worst that can happen is a new package of tubing and move it out

Nice looking job your doing there Fingers.  :o
I don't thing you have enought locktite on the bolts. There going to fall out for sure ;D

Nice!  What make is the Hurricane?

Yak Man wrote on Dec 20^th, 2011 at 9:34pm:

Nice looking job your doing there Fingers.  :o I don't thing you have enought locktite on the bolts. There going to fall out for sure ;D

In the "old days" before locktite, we smeared real dope over the bolts, and sometimes wired them after...never had a doped bolt come out.....

Marc its an ESM , 75in span, 30cc, same guys as built Capt. Cools spit. As you can see big mothering thick wing... that and the flaps should (I hope, hope, hope) make landings ok..
no room for a cockpit tho.

UM, Sandy, here's a link you might want to peruse before you say you can't add a cockpit to the hurri

http://tysplanes.com/esm_82_hurricane

yup, saw that Glen, but if you follow the build on that neat cockpit he gets real cramped inside and has to move all the servos and the tank... with the 30cc on the front, and that carb sticking inside, running out of space anyway..... :P
plus I would like to fly this Hurricane sometime, and you know the cockpit would add ohhhhh about 3 years to the build... ::)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe_mHveCsos

Man o man, nice piece of video...notice there's not a negative G manouver in the whole flight. Plus I have to do some digging but it looks a lot like the brakes are on that trigger on the stick ring.

Plus, here's what I'm hoping to get done...

---

You're correct Sandy, and they're pneumatic, not hydraulic. Pretty high tech eh?

rob erdos is a test pilot ant NRC IAR in ottawa
he has flown just about every WWII fighter out there in historic collection

http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/259/language/en-CA/Flying-the-Hurricane-with-Rob-Erdos.aspx

Nice Hurricane Sandy. I'm still in shock with the announcement that you purchased a helicopter. What is the world coming to?

whitey wrote on Jan 1^st, 2012 at 5:03pm:

Nice Hurricane Sandy. I'm still in shock with the announcement that you purchased a helicopter. What is the world coming to?

Well, depending on whether you read Nostradamus, or follow the Incas or the Mayans, the world will (may) spin to an end this year, or maybe 2014. Or if you follow that nut case in California ( no not that one, the other one) it'll end the third Tuesday of next week....but I digress..
For the record....toy helicopters I don't mind, although there have been some self-declared fliers of them who have driven me to distraction over the years....

Real helicopters bother me a great deal - but that's a different story for a different time.. :P

AND, I didn't purchase a helicopter - Santa brought me one for Christmas.... Nya!!  ;)

Well maybe you can behave and get yourself off the naughty list next year.  ;D

naw - dare I say I'm having too much fun with this Lil' Blade....next year he might bring a more conventional head and tail rotor... who said that?? wasn't me don't think

I don't think I'm even going to talk to you anymore  ;D
Obviously senility has set in.

Now drop that meccano set and get back in the basement and start working on the Hurri !

elevators are designed to be activated by wires - NOT!!!!! don't care if the original had cables for the controls, not going there... >:(  I have to relieve 2 formers to allow a CF tube with fittings on either end.
Mounted the tail wheel last night but it has to wait for the fitting of the CF tube to finalize the install of that gear...
like most ESM planes, lots of chicken and egg stuff - "this" needs "that" to fit first, but "that" needs "t'otherting" first and cant fit "t'otherting" until "this" is in..but "this" needs "that".. :P

Sandy,
You are becoming familiar with the ESM factor.
Nice to look at, nice to fly, not nice to assemble.
More ..... awaits you as you progress into the build.
Have fun, I didn't ...
Must be a seniors thing.

Well, not a turbine (freakin' blow torches!!!),  :P  and not enough cylinders to be a Merlin  ;), but some progress none the less....
Draw a curved line from the bottom of the fuse up through the 4th cooling fin to the back plate and you get an idea of what will be hanging out.... plus the muffler of course  :-[

---

30cc DLE Sandy?

yupper
officially a Rolls Royce Merlin DLE 30, air cooled  ;D

The DLE 30 is a great engine. I am looking into the 30cc Spit,  any one with any ideas on shipping (duty) from troy built models??

I got mine at Thunderbolt RC a year and a half ago, was $359 at the door, shipped and taxes...don't know how that works out compared to the US guys

Hmm well,, I may be blind but I can't see any aircraft advertised on Thunderbolt RC, but lots of accessory's. Oh well.

Sorry Shane - senior's moment on my part. I was still thinking 30ccDLE and missed the part about the Spitfire  :-X

SHUP Glen..

::)

Glen wrote on Jan 11^th, 2012 at 4:49pm:

::)

>:(

Keep building Sandy!

All right - how do I fix this!!! Slid the stab tube into one side to hold the plywood drill template - easy in.... tried to pull it back out and the last 1/2 inch stuck briefly, then came out with a length of the socket attached!!!! Absolutely no muscle, just "here's your socket"... looks like ESM made the sockets out of the same stuff the wheel wells are made from - brittle resin.. >:(

Whaddui do??

perhaps post a few pics?

here's what came out - stupid stuff looks and feels like thin stranded fibre tape, and its almost sticky. And of course, after ragging Steve about the tube on his plane, the tube doesn't fit the other stab at all...... >:(

I know, I'm stupid - shup Glen..

---

O my, that not good. :o

Sandy
Can you reach the center hole through the others ? Perhaps the easiest thing would be to fix the tube inside and then glue in some carbon mat or fiberglass. I presume that the tube ends up being permanently fixed in the tail and the stabs glued onto it ?

Do you own a small set of forceps ?

Well now.... here's what I found - the tube goes in about 4 inches  (10 cm) and passes through 2 ribs besides the outer end plywood rib...each of the two inner ribs has a plywood plate for reinforcement..so the sticky packing tape tube is just for direction.  :-?
I mic'ed the stab tube at 31/64" or 62/128", (.4843")  or 12.30 mm. aluminum, so off I went to the hobby shop to check out tubing. Of course there was lots of stuff close, but not close enough. Mike asked what I was up to and he took me to the basement (!) and showed me a pile of CF tubes about a meter long, sitting in a box in the corner.... after jumping with Glee, and Joy, and Mary, I mic'ed all them at *@#$*&?!@ 12.30mm. No freakin ciger.  >:(
Turned around to leave and there's one other tube in another box, and it mic's at 12.29. Well the math says that's .4839 or 30.5/64 (excuse the mixed metaphors please) so I brought it home..
That piece slides in that hole as slick and as tight as a *&%( in a $@*@**, but it does slide in. Since the plastic tube is directional only, I figgers I gotter made guys... :D

.01 mm, or .0004 in, or 1/128 makes a world of difference ... [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

And, with some minor ESM fitting required, STAB DOES FIT!!

---

Better hurry with the Hurri!
Spring is next week based upon today

nice work on the CF tube.  In the past, if they are too small you can build them up with some thin CA or if they are too large you can sand them down for the perfect fit.

I always hate sanding Aluminum... always get galling....had thought of going to Capt. Cool and chucking the tube up in his lathe and poloshing it with emery cloth.......
the miracle CF tube is easier....

Well, client year end is over, CCRA have their blood information, and we're back to "normal"  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

My oh my but AADD is a terrible thing sometimes.....the tears spilt over this part... :D now just put some lag bolts in, to hold it all together, change the CA hinges to Robarts I think,  and then move on to the main wing, which is largely done - thread some wires and glue the 3 halves together   :-?

---

Well, ESM's idea of "ganged" tolerances I guess...... :-/ gotta move that bellcrank hole out a bit... :)

---

What, for that minor gap???????

;D

Sandy, thought you may be interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkkNEUDC8fg&feature=related

Always like to watch hurricanes fly, but how windy is THAT!!!!  ;D

Thats a cool vid. Even the prop rip sounds cool on that plane.  Wouldn't it be nice if the field was out in the middle of nowhere and there was a sign up saying prop ripping is welcome.

  I love that sound :D

I know only one guy who gets "reeeeaaalllyyy"  upset with ripping props, but that would only be discussed under the IMAC thread.... >:(

Ripping props? I doubt very few have actually heard a prop ripping and just simply mistake it for a "loud" prop. Two totally different things. If you want to hear a real prop ripping sound, ask Al to change the CF prop to a wooden one on his DA....

Dan

Dan...where were you today? I expected to see you wandering the pits.Why no show?

Ripping props should be music to the ears of a Harvard enthusiast.  Harvards would routinely spin their prop tips to supersonic speeds and make that distinctive sound of a Harvard at full power.

Joe - It will be very hard for me to fly any time soon as I am in Anchorage, Alaska. There is no grass here.... still 5' of dirty snow.

Oh...that sucks!! Say hi to any passing wolverines for me ;)

Danster wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 1:37pm:

Ripping props? I doubt very few have actually heard a prop ripping and just simply mistake it for a "loud" prop. Two totally different things. If you want to hear a real prop ripping sound, ask Al to change the CF prop to a wooden one on his DA.... Dan

Why thank you for that DanT   ::)

......actually that is exactly what I was referring to.... during 1 IMAC season Capt. Cool was on the receiving end of some harsh words from He Who Speaks as God  ;) for the ear bleeding rip his prop was emitting.....

MkIX wrote on Mar 25^th, 2012 at 5:53pm:

Ripping props should be music to the ears of a Harvard enthusiast.  Harvards would routinely spin their prop tips to supersonic speeds and make that distinctive sound of a Harvard at full power.

yes indeedy, that P&W R1340, with all of  550 - 600 hp and a direct drive prop could surely churn up the noise level  [smiley=shocked.gif] ...... a seeming high noise level for the 140 mph cruise  :P

All right, back to the thread... as all ESM'ers know, this started out as a SNAFU. With my able assistance it soon became a FUBAR, but finally we arrived at TLAR. Lots of firsts on this plane for me, starting with retracts... However, we now have the surfaces to hinge and hook up, servos are in, find a place for the retract valve, fit the cowl, blah, blah, blah....
We are now at T.F. Bundy.

For me this is progress.... :D

---

Looks great Sandy. Certainly you have exceeded my personal ability by 110%!  :)

Joe, you may surprise yourself if you rolled up your sleeves and tackled that Extra. You can probably do more than you think ;)

whitey wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 1:19pm:

Joe, you may surprise yourself if you rolled up your sleeves and tackled that Extra. You can probably do more than you think ;)

of course he could, but that darn parrott whispering in his ear got him pshyced...

Fingers wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 8:08pm:

All right, back to the thread... as all ESM'ers know, this started out as a SNAFU. With my able assistance it soon became a FUBAR, but finally we arrived at TLAR. Lots of firsts on this plane for me, starting with retracts... However, we now have the surfaces to hinge and hook up, servos are in, find a place for the retract valve, fit the cowl, blah, blah, blah.... We are now at T.F. Bundy. For me this is progress.... :D

So will it be ready for the Cape Breton trip of 2013? ;D


Twinkie Driver

mmmmmmm '14 is pushin' it...

actually, hard stuff is mostly done - need to figure out how/where to put the retract valve, and hook up a big bunch of servos, then throttle and choke, then fit cowl, thennnnnnn crud '15  :-/

Great looking plane - gonna look awesome in the air!

Had a look at it last night. Thinking on how to repair some of the buckling in the side of it. After the 3rd time I CAed  >:( my fingers to the fuse, I almost pressed the purchase button on the Aeroworks 30cc at GH. Will make another attempt tonight. 

PS- Wife is away all weekend, so I may make more progress.

Steve Mosher wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 6:38pm:

Great looking plane - gonna look awesome in the air!

Thanks Steve, I think it'll look better in the air than it will on the ground, at least once.. ;) That darn wing is 3" (7.5 cm to those inclined) thick at the joint so there should be tons of landing "float", and except for one guy on RCU who tried scale 80 deg flaps (!) everyone else thought it flew and landed pretty good. Dan and Cool are already slavering over the thought of a Hurricane, Spitfire and P-40 flying cover for a B-25....
At 81" span I'm a bit smaller than their planes and running at 1/6 scale; I think they're 1/5.
I've got the air tank in the wing, am I supposed to fit the valve in there as well? Or sit it on top.

Joe  Di Profio wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 8:27am:

Had a look at it last night. Thinking on how to repair some of the buckling in the side of it. After the 3rd time I CAed  >:( my fingers to the fuse, I almost pressed the purchase button on the Aeroworks 30cc at GH. Will make another attempt tonight.  PS- Wife is away all weekend, so I may make more progress.

hard to press keys with a fuse stuck to your hands.....

Nice looking Hurricane Sandy.
Looking forward to seeing it go on it's first mission.

As far as the air distribution valve is concerned, try to fit it in the fuse on the ply tray where the servos are installed.
You need to make sure that it is mounted very securely.
Using good linkages (no slop at all) and a short pushrod will make your air actuator function more reliably.

Do you have all your air connectors and air lines?
Using Robarts is a good choice.

Hope this helps

The air inlet valve(where you add the air) can be installed on the belly of the plane if you choose, or the side.
At least it's out of site on the bottom. That's where I put it.

Hey Sandy. I have a neat little trick for an air pump. You may already know this, but you simply take the inflator pin for inflating basketballs and footballs and slip it into some soft plyable airline. Then run the airline to your Robart connector. I use one of those cheap Crappy Tire 12 volt air pumps.

I was hoping, with the tank in the wing, to get the valve in there as well....that way everything is in one piece/place and "no connectors". And yup I'm using robart. If there's room, I'm going to try and get the fill valve in the back of that huge radiator structure under the wing..again, eliminating a connector.

Now, what does a Hurricane gun sight look like.........MikeP,  paging MikeP, where's MkIX when you need him..

whitey wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 10:44am:

Hey Sandy. I have a neat little trick for an air pump. You may already know this, but you simply take the inflator pin for inflating basketballs and footballs and slip it into some soft plyable airline. Then run the airline to your Robart connector. I use one of those cheap Crappy Tire 12 volt air pumps.

I have the Crappy Tire (aka Canjan Tire) pump, and the valve on it is a screw fit on the Robart valve for the air....works slick as a mmmmmm  :-X

maybe I can fake something like this up

---

Fingers wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 2:08pm:

whitey wrote on Apr 25th, 2012 at 1:19pm: Joe, you may surprise yourself if you rolled up your sleeves and tackled that Extra. You can probably do more than you think ;) of course he could, but that darn parrott whispering in his ear got him pshyced...

Parrot????  What Parrot???? :-? :-?  Hmmmmm!!! Do I sense a new handle bewing in the air for Joe.??  ;D ;D

Bruce

Hey Sandy.

Did you ever get the gunsight issue resolved?   This is the first time I've seen this post so I guess I'm several months late responding. 

Mike P.

not yet Mike - was held up with various "issues". Now that retirement is imminent the Hurry goes back on the table...... need a good pic og the sight to copy...

try here

http://www.aerocockpit.com/en/7-products.html

Hi Sandy:

Here a link to a few good pictures of the GM2 Mk.II gun sight

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=54193


It was used by both the Spitfire and the Hurricane prior to the arrival of the gyro sights.  Earlier versions of the Mk.II have a circular sight glass. Select the glass shape depending on which variant you are modelling.  Use the link below to determine which sight you need.

http://gunsight.jp/b/english/data/sight-e-e.htm

Cheers:

Mike

thank you and thank you - great info..

If your Hurricane needs a Gyro gun sight (Mk. 2C GGS), and you want to go nuts on detail then check out this site (pardon the pun).

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=160621&sid=e8b3c38184e1a6abfc025af9f7fc3767

Mike P.

Quote:

... Hurricane Sandy. Looking forward to seeing it go on it's first mission.

It's already been on it's first mission... just look at NY & NJ. ;)

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

ok, tail is done - under that screwed down cover is everything including a kitchen sink...very crowded  >:( Servos are installed and the wires are hooked up - both elevator and rudder going in the correct direction  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Next is put an arm on the throttle and hook up a servo, then do something with the choke - I'd like a servo on it but not sure if there's enough room..... :-/

---

Looking good, Sandy. [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif] I hasd the same problem with a couple of items. If I had the room, it was somewhere I couldn't reach. >:(

there's still a long hemostat in there somewhere!!! I'll likely have CG problems till it falls forward enough to get it from the saddle area... ;D ;D

Don't worry, the first landing will bounce that right out  :D

>:(..... ::)....... :D :D :D

LOL !    :-X :-X :) :) :)

Hey Sandy,
Nice to see you moving forward with your Hurricane!
As you know, if it's tail heavy it could be a real hairy ride...
It took over 3 lbs. of lead to balance my Spit and it was still a bit tail heavy as you could tell when I landed.
If she's balanced well it should be a very successful first flight.
All the best

Well, if I get the hemostats out, ;) (and find the small vice grips I'm missing) >:( and put the ignition and battery on the front of the firewall, I think then I'm down to about 2.5 pounds  ;D

The big spinner is aluminium with a solid back plate, the 3 blade prop is heavier ( and maybe I could put weights in the blades like the helicopter guys do) ::)  The main flight pack will slide right up against the firewall on the inside so maybe I'm down to about 2 pounds...oooh oooh oooh and I have an old Harry Higley heavy hub...maybe i could drill and tap it and put it under the spinner............naw  :P

Plus the air tank is in the wing instead of behind in the fuse, so that weight is moved forward to just behind the spar ( 1 oz. x 6 inches)

All adds up, or down  :-?

Sandy,
It sounds like the maiden flight is close at hand ::)
You should sight the Gun sight in first...Luckily I have done this in a previous life... ;)
However, it might be tight getting the Hawker tail jack to fit in. :o

JackDD wrote on Dec 17^th, 2012 at 12:47pm:

Sandy, It sounds like the maiden flight is close at hand ::) You should sight the Gun sight in first...Luckily I have done this in a previous life... ;) However, it might be tight getting the Hawker tail jack to fit in. :o

Heck Jack.... I can sit this darn thing ON the tail jack  ;D ;D

What I really want now is a picture of what the gun barrels looked like on the wing....this isn't a tank buster so the long barrels don't work.... like to know what these browning guns looked like on the business end...  :-?

Geez, Sandy..From what I remember the Guns were mounted in the wing, with the magazine, and the Muzzles were flush to the leading edge of the wing. :o They didnt let me play with anything that went Bang only the Elestrickery side.

I don't blame them one little bit for keeping the mad Scot away from the noisy end Jack.....

but hoping someone has a picture of that end.....noisy gun end, not noisy Jack end  :-X

just what did the muzzle look like - flared? scalloped? tapered? big "bang" flag hanging off?

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.aviation.technomuses.ca/databases/image_bank/images/18873.jpg

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/other-mechanical-systems-tech/35095d1299768628t-hawker-hurricane-pilot-manual-hurrican_2.jpg


Fingers wrote on Dec 17^th, 2012 at 4:19pm:

I don't blame them one little bit for keeping the mad Scot away from the noisy end Jack..... but hoping someone has a picture of that end.....noisy gun end, not noisy Jack end  :-X just what did the muzzle look like - flared? scalloped? tapered? big "bang" flag hanging off?

thanks Ben, but I "think" those are the ones outside of the landing lights. Inside there were 4 browning machine guns on each side, covered by the red  doped cloth until they were fired...those are the ones I'm interest in.
My plane doesn't have the cannons or the extra guns outside...

Right on Sandy, here was the exact plane I worked on , hence the fog about the .303's :o

---

Try here Sandy

http://www.aviation.technomuses.ca/collections/image_bank/

There is a whole archive of Hurricane stuff at this museum's website.

well, slide it back another 1/8 inch and we're OK here....bit of a gap but I noticed some real ones do have a gap (that's my story and I'm sticking to it).  >:(

Unfortunately, where the real Hurri has a sheet metal oil deflector on the top front of the cowl ESM put a molded lip - quite thick   :P

Anyway, engine doesn't stick out too bad at all...although plug and muffler still have make an appearance.....

---

well, got the darn thing to fit...engine may be out a tad too far but that's what I get with the standoffs I have.... (need the weight forward anyway) Too bad the plane is painted in Tangmere colours - they were never in Africa. I could hide the engine head with a sand filter under the cowl but Sandford-Tuck was strictly an Island guy.

I think the 3 blade will look great on the end...and I'm thinking I'm going to cut a small hole in the exhaust area on both sides and "carefully open the ends of the molded exhaust pipes...will drain at least a little heat from the cowl....

---

Wow!!  Anyone notice the number of views to Sandy's Hurricane topic!!!! 3233 Views. Views<----Click Me.
Bruce

Hi Sandy:

I don't have as much info on the Hurricane as I do for another British fighter from the same period ;).  But here is what I have been able to find in my library on the guns when mounted in a Hurricane. I'm afraid I'm not sure what the little cuffs on the end of the barrels are.  They could be part of the machine gun assembly, or they could simply be little covers to keep the sand out while the ground crew work on the guns.

The guns were set back in the wing far enough that none of the barrel ends extended beyond the leading edge, but you didn't have to look too far down the port to see the business end of the Brownings.  I suspect you already know that.

---

which fighter was that Mike, Typhoon??  ::)

for the one  in this picture, top up the tank and this plane is ready for it's next sortie  :)

Hey Sandy, have you finished the Hurricane??  If so, lets see some pictures.

Bruce

have about 35 deg full flap, 20 deg part flap..... I FUBAR'd up the underside of the wing trying for robart hinges on the flaps....that didn't work very well  :violin so back to the flat hinges... cover everything as best I can.... Now I'm in IFF mode... :Rock :party

Quote:

Now I'm in IFF mode...

What does IFF stand for :-?, Incrediblely Fudged Factor ;) ;) ;) ;D

No, no no no ...... the "fudge factor" is TLAR  :dead_horse


IFF simply stands for If It Flies............

lots of stuff can be done to the stupid freaking plane, but not going to bother until IIF   :Cheers

Understood.

Well then, MIFWBTAP :)

that's easy for you to say  :thinking :Anyone

MIFWBTAP stands for

May It Fly Way Better Than A Pig ;D

now it's cursed - thanks a lot   :wallbash

Well, another step in working around the ADD... >:(

With the air tank already in the wing instead of the fuse, i thought I'd try this..... no valves to connect/leak, just a servo to plug in....

---

hmmmmmm please excuse the focus in #5 and #6............got ahead of the camera I guess  :wallbash

Looking good, Sandy! Can't wait to see up close.

Who makes the air valve?

had a choice between ESM and Robart.........take a guess  :Anyone  Hint - doesn't start with "E"    :Thanks

Your getting there. :) Just pretend it's a Sig kit or a Yellow Aircraft, or a etc, etc.

welll, "etc" starts with an E so that's out.......

throttle, choke, muffler, finish hacking the cowl,  >:(



when I was a kid, lllooonnngggg before there were syndromes and disorders, my dad used to say " that boy's mind wanders so bad he'll wake up in Greenwood and he's not even out of bed yet......." ...welll this thing'll do that to you in spades.... :D

Fingers wrote on Jun 27^th, 2013 at 9:36pm:

had a choice between ESM and Robart.........take a guess  :Anyone  Hint - doesn't start with "E"    :Thanks

I should have no problem guessing that! ;D ;D

That is going to be a nice looking plane in the air though - always wanted a Hurricane.

IIF  :wallbash


adjusting throttle throws now.....stupid carb isn't square to the back of the engine so everything runs at an angle   :swear

well another hitch...not much room here for the ignition box....so question - can the box be placed behind the firewall? Assuming there's enough room there.

---

Also, the "wires" to the rudder and elevator are indeed wire...would kind of like to move the Rx from where it is between the tank and the servos, to down on the "floor" under those wires...make the install a bit cleaner up on the shelf....

Will 2.4 negate any problems from those wires? or am I going to have tons of interference??

---

Well now....
getting another engine that allowed the rear exhaust crated a whole whack of stuff  :HitPalm that "voided" a lot of the inside and front progress I'd made...anyway...new rear muffler set-up wouldn't allow the simple straight line choke I'd set up. AND, there's really not much room in the fuse for either another servo or a 90 deg bell crank..these chinese "arfs" should come with your own factory worker who has small hands to get inside.. :Im Happy

SO - ignition is above the tank, (beneath in the attached pic) in front of the former you can see - single battery is in a box that goes right to the firewall and is held in with velcro. 

along the  top of the tank you can see a red nyrod with a piece of yellow flex bending around the back of the tank, running across to the other side of the fuse..inside the yellow tube is steel cable attached to the choke. It exits the side of the fuse beside the wire for the on/off switch....bit stiff, but does work   [smiley=beer.gif]

Now that THAT seems resolved, I find the retract system isn't holding air anymore...  :wallbash

---

Abraham Lincoln said "I walk slowly but I never walk back." 

Keep at it; progress is progress, and....it will look great in the air  :)

Well, way too  much gap behind spinner - price to pay for no muffler cut out on the side of the cowl I guess. Might be able to play games with stand offs and washers... :dead_horse

On the other hand, choke isn't too obtrusive on the side.... it may help when I paint it. Actually gonna see if there is a smaller collar available...like on that's tighter on the cable..

---

"...progress..."

is sometimes over rated, that's why 1 step forward, 2...

"these chinese "arfs" should come with your own factory worker who has small hands to get inside.."


So, you need a Mini-Fingers? ;D ;D

argus wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 11:23am:

"...progress..." is sometimes over rated, that's why 1 step forward, 2... "these chinese "arfs" should come with your own factory worker who has small hands to get inside.." So, you need a Mini-Fingers? ;D ;D

exactly  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif] my arthritic ol' pinkies just don't fit anywhere anymore...forEX..... the engine had to be on with the muffler, throttle and choke linkages connected, and the ignition had to be in above where the tank goes, so the ignition cut switch had to be on, then the choke set-up wrapped around the tank which isn't in yet then the tank lines have to be fished through but there's no room around the carb and linkages to get at the lines fromthetankwhichhasgoovertheignitionandhte............ :shots

Know what you mean about not being able to get digits into small places.

First assignment at P&WC, they started me off in Deburr-deburring and blending the sharp edges left after the machining centres had shaped the parts. After a week and a half, powers that be decided to ship me to "Arts and Crafts" (Paint Shop), because I couldn't get the burrs down in the real small holes, because of my large pinkies.

to fettle or not to fettle
that is the question

no question Brian.....still some clean up and fussing to do...

you go play in the snow while I fettle...  :Naaah

Well, Cool's going to make me a new spinner back plate, then I balance it (probably about 1/2 pound  >:(), check the flap/elevator setup, and then, kinda, maybe almost sorta ready.... :huhsign

Sorry I don't have a nice table to display it on - I wanted to use the wife's new kitchen counter cabinet - NOT!!!!!

---

Sydney would be very proud
Nice job

Nice Job Sandy!!!
Bruce

Nice looking plane you got there Sandy!
ESM is a hell of a build but they sure are nice looking!
Should fly very nice 8-)

all the videos show it flying great....hope so


now for the wheel covers  :D

Great looking plane, Sandy!

Steve Mosher wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 11:44am:

Great looking plane, Sandy!

thank you sir, it would  be right some nice flying in twomation with a B-25! If some other guys wanted to join up and make it a 3mation or even a formation would be sweet!!

Notice it looks beat up already, and i haven't even done any weathering yet...(done a lot of whethering though  ;))

Fine job Sandy.  It looks great just sitting there, and will look awesome in the air.

well I was complaining about the gap between the spinner and the cowl............ the coolman made a new backplate that has a 1/4 inch inset in the back....check this out!!!!!

manomanomanoman

not only improved gap, but a bit heavier as well to help with the balance  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

---

Fingers wrote on Mar 20^th, 2014 at 3:58pm:

well I was complaining about the gap between the spinner and the cowl............ the coolman made a new backplate that has a 1/4 inch inset in the back....check this out!!!!! manomanomanoman not only improved gap, but a bit heavier as well to help with the balance  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

Looks much better Sandy!

Great job on the back plate Al.  Sandy that makes the model look 100% better.  Amazing how the little things make a big difference in the presentation,  Great job!!!

Bruce

administrator wrote on Mar 24^th, 2014 at 3:48pm:

Great job on the back plate Al.  Sandy that makes the model look 100% better.  Amazing how the little things make a big difference in the presentation,  Great job!!! Bruce

two other guys involved - Todd suggested I build up the back plate with balsa, the Cool improved on that idea with a metal plate - all i had to do was go to Metal-R-Us and buy a piece of stock (most of which is in a bucket in Cool's shop)

Well, on the balance apparatus  :'(

Gonna take 2 pounds 14 ounces ( 1.35 kg (?) for you meteoric guys) to balance this thing.....crud  >:(

Wait until you finish the vailly, and have to use about 7lbs. [smiley=evil.gif]

shup  >:( :shots :wallbash :swear

Well, I either figure out how to hang this on the front under the cowl, or find a source for 3 pounds of lead..... ;)

Sigh, Metal R Us here I come

---

We used to use something called GEC heavy metal for aircraft mass balances
It has a specific gravity of 18
(I do not suggest depleted uranium 8-))

It's just that the sg of lead isn't all that great

Maybe something more modern exists at a good price

It's hard to find space for a chunk of lead

Good luck

problem is, Google GEC heavy metal and you get pages of info on bands that purport to play music of a specific genre, little or nothing on where to find metal.

Metal R Us don't list it ........ :shots

yet another ESM quandry  >:(

Sandy, you can always go the sporting goods way, and epoxy some shotgun shot into the cowl.

http://www.google.com/patents/US4938799
Heavy tungsten alloys can be machined
I don't know where you would find scrap

GEC heavy metal was around in 1969
I remember using it

Creak groan fart sniffle

Glen wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 10:26am:

Sandy, you can always go the sporting goods way, and epoxy some shotgun shot into the cowl.

rather epoxy it into a box on the firewall - not keep on 3 pounds hanging around IN the cowl. And just thought  :BrightIdea can we get lead shot any more? Thought there was some problem from environmentalists afraid lead shot might do harm to the creatures we're shooting with the lead shot..... the lead is toxic  :D

however, 1/8 lead sheet is 8 lbs per sq ft. so guess I have to do some figgerin' and see what size pieces I can laminate around the engine to get almost 3 lbs

ESM  :dead_horse :Im Happy

Why don't do what I did? Say the heck with it, get 5 flights, cut one wing 95% through at night and then have the wing fail in a spectacular fashion with lots of people watching. That's how you treat an ESM product!! Then you won't have these worries. ;D

Steve Mosher wrote on Mar 27^th, 2014 at 12:35pm:

Why don't do what I did? Say the heck with it, get 5 flights, cut one wing 95% through at night and then have the wing fail in a spectacular fashion with lots of people watching. That's how you treat an ESM product!! Then you won't have these worries. ;D

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

problem is Steve, with almost 3 pounds missing from the front end I'd get a fairly short portion of only 1 flight and have a spectacular finally (finale) to the ESM  :-/

Sandy, you're right, they've mostly moved on to steel shot, but you can still find lead occasionally.
Oh, and you'll need 3/8 of that sheet or 37 % to get your 3lbs.

Do you have the lead already ?

Well, Metal R Us has sheet lead; seems a 12"x12"x 1/8" sheet is 8 pounds.... so now to figure out how to cut the sheet to  get 3.......
144 sq in = 8lb
so 1 sq in = .05lb
so 3 lb = 60 sq in

12 x 5 = 60
10 x 6 = 60
8 x 8 = 64
7 x 8 = 56

OR 18 cubic in = 8lb
9 ci = 4
3 x 3 x 1 = 9

:shots

Or use a scale like I do  ;D
Do you have the lead already ????

Sandy just form a mold in "Dry" sand and melt the lead using your wife's cast iron frying pan. Just don't get caught and you should be good to go. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]  Wear goggles for your eyes and gloves when pouring.  Oh yeah. :Club Chef  Don't use the frying pan for cooking anymore

well I can melt the lead with a propane torch I'd expect once I figure the size I need approx. Don't have the lead yet, just found it today

If you're not in a rush, I think I can come up with some Monday.

that would be wonderful Glen  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif] not as if I'm going flying THIS weekend

OK, let you know how I make out Monday.

well, glen musta raided a histyrical site like the citadel or something, now have a 24 lb cannon ball...... :Cheers  Thanks glen

won't fit under the cowl but guess I can whittle it down a tad  - AND, if anyone needs lead to balance an airplane, might have some here.  :D

Was it only 24lbs?  ;D
Don't forget the best part is it's an experienced flier  ;D ;D ;D

yeh it looks like its been fired a couple of times............

oh!! "flier" not "firer"..... Doh! mt bad  ;)

Well, we're getting close..
apparently, when you try to make the noisy thingy do it's thing, you need something on the front for the Armstrong starter to engage... ;)  If it's too small the noisy thingy goes too fast and overheats  :( If it's too big the noisy thingy bogs down and overheats  :o Can't win here.  >:(

I took the 3 blade 17x8 off and put a 2 blade Falcon 18x8 on just for something to hang on to, and after a bit of Armstronging made some noise.. :D Two 10 minute runs at about 3000 - pretty rich, gas everywhere.. :-?

NOW, where the heck do I hang 2 pounds 14oz of lead??? Not much room up here...

---

Right up on top of the motor mounts is where I'd go.

I'd also check the toe in on the starboard gear.  ::)

Hey oh Historical site pilfererer...the gear is just there for the purposes of holding the wing up whilst I do the Armstrong thingy on the front of the noisy thingamabob.....not locked in in any way  :tongueout :moon

wasn't sure if i could mount the lead on the stand offs..... oh physically I can, but weight/vibration/torque/fatigue .. :-?

Shouldn't be an issue, those mounts are pretty strong, and they don't move.

Glen wrote on Apr 13^th, 2014 at 8:47pm:

Shouldn't be an issue, those mounts are pretty strong, and they don't move.

[smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbup.gif] [smiley=thumbup.gif] [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif] :Rock :intheair :grouphug3

need another Robart retract valve....or at least the little set screws that regulate air flow....

D'oh  :o

who knew they needed LockTite too  :wallbash :crappyday

well, been screwed...........................uh, got some screws, and the lock nuts have been tightened, so that's fixed......

now, back to the lead....... 24 pound ball obviously way too big to melt, various hack saws won't cut the lead, sigh....

Talk to Everett.  I believe he has lots of lead plate used for roofing that melts easily.

Bruce

was able to split the ball with hammer and old hatchet.... 1/2 pieces are handleable....

OK, have a 3 pound slug of lead, little better than 3x2x1.... big question, does epoxy take to lead? I can maybe get the slug behind the firewall in front of a former, will epoxy secure it there?  I could drill a bunch of holes in the slug, pour a load of epoxy into the space and drop the slug in, OR should i split the slug into smaller strips and put it in that way??    :-/

And Todd, (or Glen) don't just reply YES!!

Yep

Hard to figure what you mean?  How about a picture or two?

What happen to the edit button?

Yak Man wrote on May 13^th, 2014 at 8:10pm:

What happen to the edit button?

update your session, then you can edit......

there is no room behind the engine to attached lead to the firewall, this space is taken up by muffler.....immediately behind the firewall there is a space in front of the wing saddle. I can get the lead in there but no way to secure it other than 1) adhesive or 2) jam it with lots of foam rubber.

I can take the 3x2x1 slug and slice it into 3x1x1 strips and get in the space OK... should I drill ton of holes in the lead, soak it in epoxy, insert and pour epoxy over it, or use silicone.
Other alternative is to attach it to the top of the engine stand offs ( not much room there but can be done) and it's close to interfering with the throttle arm on the carb.....

---

Flexibility is your friend
Regidity is your enemy
When there is serious vibration

I would use silicone
Fresh not old
It seems to deteriorate in the tube
Degrease with acetone and roughen the surface
It is a mechanical bond

Hope this helps

thank you kind sir........ and add tie wraps, and velcro, and tacos, and enchillados ....

Well it does indeed fly................. :party  Nerve wracking as he** but with Cool on the trims (123 clicks right aileron and 221 down ) I was able to get in the air, fly around for 7 or 8 life times and get back on the ground successfully.
By the time I landed the idle had loosened up and was too high so I landed long, bent one of the ESM axles, but no major problems. But as the plane went by at 5 feet and 5 or 6 mph I realized the pleasant surprise that landing the thing isn't going to be an issue (no flaps either).

This is a post flight picture, there are no in flight because the camera crew got bored and walked away to put together his own plane. (It's Ok Todd, i won't tell anyone).  In fairness, I kept the thing so high i doubt he could have got anything between take off and landing... :Rock

:Im Happy

---

Great job Sandy!  You seem to be a little stressed LOL , but it was good to see it fly. It's a real nice looking plane in the air and on the ground. :)

Awesome, Sandy! Can't wait to see it fly.

me too  :WEEEEE

Fingers wrote on May 16^th, 2014 at 6:03pm:

me too  :WEEEEE

;D ;D ;D hey, did notice that the further away from you an ESM product gets in the air, the harder it to see all the crap that drove you crazy for the past couple of years?? ;)

yup  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif] hardly noticed the over sized stab spar  >:(, the jammed tail space full of elevator and rudder cables  :o, the 3 pounds of lead behind the firewall, nor the rear muffler interfering with the overflow and plug wire and no where's else to put any of it.... :D

course, at the height I was flying it was difficult to just notice the plane... ;)

:dead_horse

All good - it flies..

Must have felt good to see it fly after all of the effort put into building it.  Congrats.

I understand that AC might have brought along a Spitfire? A Spitfire and a Hurricane at the same time; like Duxford on a Sunday.

have a few  good shots of the Spit Mike, will get them on soon...unfortunately we didn't get up together.
By the time we identified all the little friggley things I have to tighten/locktite/reroute/tie down I decided to stick with just one flight...

that plus the engine didn't want to start.... brand new rich/lean/stubborn ( I'm not going up with him flying this thing again).....

Excellent work and great job Sandy!!

Bruce

Well Cool made me a pair of #5 steel axles, I discovered the ball links on the servo end of the elevator wires were not the good ones but cheap, shiny plastic CFA ones, and the balls were sticking in the sockets - replaced them.. & made a proper overflow set up with a loop over top of the tank (kinda).

Didn't like the inertia or momentum of a single 3 pound chunk of lead so cut it into 3 equal chunks, filled the gap behind the firewall with commercial silicone and dropped the 3 slaps in. Once everything cures the lead ain't going no where....except out the bottom.. :'(

Fuse is 8 lb 6
wing is 7 lb 9
lead is  3 lb 0

got a freakin' 19 pound plane here  >:( :D

may need jato takeoff

take offs Ok Todd...lots of pull in that 3 blade prop  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

Unfortunately, my wave-off yesterday was initiated about 1 foot too low  >:( (lots of inertia in 19 pounds) and the gear didn't like that too much  :wallbash  4tunatly what came apart was mostly Chinese (ESM) plywood that doesn't seem to have been glued anyway  :shots

some delicate manipulation with probes and Xacto blades will see most of it slide back together, although some gentle pounding of struts with a fiber hammer is required..

Pics, Sandy...Pics:-)

Jack, you caught the "wave-off" perfectly, and the results speak for themselves..... ah crap, as i get older my abuse of landing gear increases exponentially....

---

might need a bandaid or 2

painter wrote on Jun 4^th, 2014 at 1:43pm:

might need a bandaid or 2

:swear :protest

Well, last flight last year saw the gear snag something on takeoff - plane turned to the right, then rolled 540 deg and landed on its top..... :bedtime

one gear pulled out, wing split at the joint (actually the cheap chinese plywood came apart ) and some cosmetic damage to sheeting. So, drill some extra anti twist dowel holes, about pound of hysol, lots of clamps, no  :swear problem at all..

Fuse has some de-laming, so pour some thinned fiberglass resin in and slosh it around... :wallbash

---

Aww, that's not too bad Sandy, you can have that shipshape in no time.

Broke my wheel well  :crappyday :shots

And that plastic was such high quality stuff..... >:(

just have to figure out how to clamp that long wing... maybe now's the time to convert it to 3 piece..

I do believe, if I make a jig slightly longer than the wing, with end plates that cup the wing tips. Wooden formers in the center area to hold the TOP of the wing (with wing inverted of course). Now one wing tip cup will be slightly adjustable in and out.... :huhsign

I use the master rib jig left over from the destruction/manufracture and drill several more dowel holes in both panel ends, clean up the splintered ply rib, and epoxy the extra dowels in place.  :excited THEN  I might be able to slather everything with hysol, shove it together, invert it on the jig, tie the center down and use shims to tighten up the one tip cup. Let it dry overnight and voila,  :popcorn

"What on earth, I say what in the world is that boy yamerring about"   :dead_horse

Well, panels apart....at this point i will entertain a motion to make the wing 3 piece, if someone comes up with a viable plan... :-?

Obviously the chinese plywood has delaminated ( it's about as good as their 6061 aluminium)  >:(but with dowels pining everything, and some careful clean up,  it will go back.... :Raa Raa The ripple in the covering behind the wheel well is a simple crack in the sheeting, no biggie  :Im Happy

interesting observation, there is NO glue on the spar. I was so sure I had poured epoxy into each of the 4 slots, but obviously missed at least 1. ESM brain fart yet again...

---

Fiddledit..

lots of Hysol, some kind of clamps, rest is cosmetic  [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif] so should be able to get it together..

The adhesive on the covering is gone so I'll likely have to patch in clear mylar and then find someone to help blend in some colour.... ::)

---

I've dilly daddled long enough....plus, Todd had some ideas on fixing the fuse. These ESM planes are known for the lack of resin holding the outside stuff to the inside stuff of the fuse  :huhsign....STUFF is a very technical aircraft design and construction term (see sh**, cr**) When the plane twisted and dumped, the fuse eggshelled, or delaminated in places. Todd has a technique  :Raa Raa
Plus, MAN recently ran a motivating article on fixing wings, so away we go...

---

Geesh Sandy, that's not bad at all.

doesn't look it Glen, but a fair amount of the fuse finish is loose on the cloth underneath...

Well, sloshed a pile of resin around inside the fuse, and it was actually seeping out those holes and cracks that are visible in the finish..I put a piece of cloth inside along the bottom seam - now it's sand, sand, fill, and then sand so I can cover the whole thing with .75 cloth...

---

Fingers wrote on Oct 18^th, 2016 at 12:20pm:

Well, sloshed a pile of resin around inside the fuse, and it was actually seeping out those holes and cracks that are visible in the finish..I put a piece of cloth inside along the bottom seam - now it's sand, sand, fill, and then sand so I can cover the whole thing with .75 cloth...

Weight going to be an issue?

don't think so Ben. 1 pump of resin did the job, and the 3/4 cloth wont weigh much. Already have 3 pounds in the nose anyway  ::)

Should be bullet proof by now  :)

needs to be... >:(

same breaks, some filler and sanding done....at some point I'll resin it. You can really see the cracks in the side
Likely be impossible to match the paint, so Benjamin Moore here I come - 2 quarts of exterior latex semi gloss - air brush the whole thing then new markings from Callie.....although masks for painted markings spins my prop..

---

Sandy,
Don't worry about covering the cracks. It should have some after all it's a fighter with battle damage. It survived the battle of Britain. lol


PS  engine is now greasy and dirty

Wish the damage was more the "bullet hole" type and less the "crack" type  ;)

OK, decided to glass the wing - had some repairs on the skin anyway. Was laughing when I called Cool today, never realized the wing was open bay!! Never realized because the top is sheeted.  ;D I know, shup Ben!. 
Anyway, peeled the bottom covering off and repaired some of the bottom cosmetic. The gear block is the biggest problem, so some effort will go into that. Can easily make inserts for the holes.... little sanding, and off we go..
While open, I discovered another little ESM hiccup. While I drilled the hinge holes in the spots indicated in the manual, notice that NONE of them hit the doubler blocks inside  ::). Guess I'll Gorilla some blocks over the inside of them.

Went to Benjamin Moore and got a litre of paint matched to the bottom colour -= just about perfect match..Exterior Latex Flat.

---

Back to the gear repair....both old plates out....BIG hole in the top of the wing now... >:(

---

Your getting there. Keep at it..

Gear plates back in. Front one cleaned up and reused; rear one replaced. The damaged leading edge can be replace now that I've something to tie it to.
Also, one of the joys of taking the top off the wing, there's lot's of access to put in triangle stock and plenty of other bracing  ::)

---

New Leading edge on, give me something to tie the new sheeting to. At the same time I put 1" sq. reinforcing cubes around the Robart hinges that weren't hitting the factory blocks...

---

Some how I missed the progress.  Getting any closer? Hard to get anything done in between all of those cat naps  ;D

Not bad progress Ben. Sheet the bottom of the wing, glass and paint. Got detoured with a little project, prototyping a small WWI plane. Tough - my fingers don't do 1/16" balsa  >:(

---

Well who knew???? Seems a shop vac has a bit of pull!!  :o
Final vac before glassing the bottom, and the vac pulled up a piece of sheeting - thank you ESM  :-[
So bit more glue, bit more sanding, wipe down with acetone, THEN glass  >:(

---

Think of it as pre-stressing the airframe to find structural issues. ::)

Glen wrote on Jun 28^th, 2017 at 5:29pm:

Think of it as pre-stressing the airframe to find structural issues. ::)

That, and I maybe shouldn't have used my Binford 9800 vac.  :HitPalm

Bottom of wing glassed - now I know why they tell you to do the bottom first.....FUBER's not as visible. Note to self; "THIN the darn Epoxy before applying!!"

Almost ready to do the top, got distracted - the Hurricane had a cover over the joint on the wing, light aluminium likely. Sice my joining job is less than stellar, why not an aluminium cover......shape needs a bit of work, but after the glass is on and sanded...why not?

---

Almost there!! Top is pretty good....for a War Bird. Got some advice from an expert on War Birds...
Don't sweat the bottom of the wing. Do it "all right" paint it then wipe it down with thinned clear with a "tad" of "oily stuff". The darn planes leaked oil and hydraulic like sieves anyway.
Top of wing, minor dimples get filled with the oily stuff, and dents on the leading edge get dry brushed with aluminum.....
That's my story and I'm sticking to it... >:(

---

Bit of touch up on fuse....Tamiya and ESM don't talk to each other.  >:( At 100 feet and 50 MPH who cares.
First coat on bottom of wing....

---

First run at first colour on top.....I know there are those of you aware that the British had paint schemes specified as pattern  "A" and "B" in the early years of the war.....some will take a look and determine my efforts don't really look like either.

Another, less documented pattern was the "ESM" pattern, and that is represented here  ::)

---

As long as it mates with the fuse colors you'll get by.

The fuse is ESM flat. I went with a "Not So Flat", but not yet semi gloss. So the finish will be off. Too bad I guess; I didn't want the real flat look on the big Hurricane, and this is the paint I'll be using... :-[

so, paint it all.

sometime maybe......

Second "sewage" coat, first pass at the "silage". Almost looks OK.  :P

The roundel is just laid in place for wet dream effect!  :ImSorry

---